In our recent chapter on vangs I wrote about ways to get rid of the topping lift altogether, my preferred option, particularly for offshore boats.
But the bottom line is that if we don’t have a really good rigid vang and a decent boom gallows, we will have to live with a topping lift and its associated problems:
- Chafe of the leach.
- Slapping around as the boat goes over every wave.
By the way, if you have only sailed inshore, don’t make the mistake of not doing something about the above before you do a significant offshore passage. What you will hardly notice inshore with no swell on a day sail will drive you nutso at o-dark-thirty on an offshore passage in swell.
And if a topping lift is allowed to slap around for an entire long passage, like say a trans-Atlantic, I can guarantee you will make some sailmaker’s day at the end of the voyage—I used to be a sailmaker and smile with fondness when I remember topping lift damage, which is deliciously expensive to fix because it messes up the leach tabling.
So here’s a cool hack to fix the topping lift, see the above diagram:
Hmm. When you try to ease the main out, doesn’t the topping lift, now tethered to the backstay, keep the boom end from going all the way out? What am I missing? (I have a soft vang, but use your preferred method for my topping lift, without the shock cord. I have not suffered mainsail leech wear on long passages, but now you have me worried.)
Hi Terence,
The topping lift is not tethered to the backstay. Rather the shock cord that it looped around the topping lift then runs through a block on the backstay and down to the deck. Shock cord will happily stretch to at least double its original length so as the boom is let out the shock cord stretches and runs through the block as the topping lift moves away from the backstay. The result is the shock cord keeps a bit of tension on the topping lift to keep it tight and away from the leach, but nothing excessive.
You see this kind of use of shock cord on racing boats, particularly small ones, all the time. The secret is to run the shock cord a lot further than the distance you need it to stretch and recover, which is the reason for the block.
Small keelboats like SB3 use a stiff horizontal carbon batten at the masthead to hold the backstay (I assume) clear of the roach when slack. Might this not be neater?
Hi Richard,
Interesting idea. I guess it would depend on the geometry. The other issue would be if the batten extended past the back stay and then we jibed or tacked, the batten would be on the wrong side of the back stay. Given that, I think I would stick with the shock cord.
Good point. It’s resting position would have to be inside the backstay, angled downwards. I guess the batten could even be strapped to the top of the backstay with free end pointing downwards.
Hi Richard,
I like the idea. I think one might need to test a bit to find potential problems, like backstay interference, as John mentioned, which I agree could be a problem, but may not be so. Perhaps that could be solved by having two battens, one on each side of the backstay, probably angled perhaps 60 degrees from each other, and then connecting them to the lift via a line between the two ends going through a ring on the boom lift? This type of solutions need more pondering and testing, so I don’t really know what I think of it yet.
We all know that topping lifts are a pain in the backside, but is the hack recommended in this article really worth the candle? If one was being picky, one might ask many sailors would need to have accidents with the necessary bosun’s chair before any advantages are outweighed?
The fact is that tens of thousands of yachts make offshore passages and trans-At crossings every year and I’m not aware that topping lift damage to leaches is a hot topic wherever crews meet for beers at the end of their voyages.
Hi Peter,
I think the reason that mainsail wear isn’t a big topic while drinking beer is predominantly that people focus on having done the passage and being happy. If they want to talk about problems, most of them have had more “dramatic” ones than some wear they haven’t noticed yet. I do notice that few boats report wear on the normally smooth passat winter passage from Europe to the Caribbean, while after the more northerly rougher return trip, few boats avoid significant damage and wear, including the main leech.
I also think that on an ocean cruiser, being able to get into the mast and work there safely is just as important as being able to swim.
Hi Peter,
Up to you, I guess. I used it for years on my old boat that had no boom gallows and found it well “worth the candle”.
As to the accidents argument, I can certainly see that view. On the other hand, I’m a firm believer that going up the mast safely is a basic and required seamanship skill, so for me at least, the argument does not work. For example, I go up the spar to check everything over before every ocean passage, and at least twice a year otherwise.
This reminds me of the bungee self-tailor idea of Hugo boss fame most recently. It went across his room then through a block to the mainsheet. I was wondering about doing that on a cruising boat, particularly a cat, when one might want to dump the main fast. If the handle is left in for convenience it can take a few seconds to do it if it’s in the normal self-tailor. Upon reflection a slip hitch would work too if there is something handy to tie it to. Off topic I know, anyway, carry on.
Hi Michael,
I come from racing on extreme boats and love the idea from Alex Thomson’s Hugo Boss. However, I think it’s not very practical for cruisers. Extreme boats keep speeds that mean their main is always sheeted in quite hard, even going downwind. That means the actual sheet mostly doesn’t go in or out a very big distance. Also, on very long distance sailing, the wind angle stays mostly the same for a long time. I assume Alex has a moveable cleat on the sheet to adjust where the shock cord pulls on the sheet, for different wind situations. I think it looks brilliant for racing this way, but probably not suitable for most cruisers.
In the totally insane Formula 28 open construction multihull class, we used self tailing winches on the main sheet. The sheet was either held in the hand (in gusty situations) or put into the self tailer as normal and then returned back around the winch, below the handle. That way, to release totally we could just pull the rope to get it out of the self tailer and release the sheet completely. After grinding it in some, we had to pull the tail a bit to make the rope loop short.
The Formula 28 class was a very free ‘box rule” construction class. Number of hulls: Whatever. Weight: The lowest you can manage. Sail area: As you wish. Etc. In real life they were 28 foot long multihulls, 400 to 700 kilos, 880 to 1400 pounds total weight, upwind sail area just under 100 square meters 1100 square feet. Most teams had this as their full time job. Easily the craziest and fastest boats I have ever sailed. On Lake Garda, I’ve passed 35 knots boat speed, perhaps 40 knots, on one of those. Averaged over about 500 meters. This was in the 90ies, before foils. Yes, of course I was scared. 🙂 The point of going into this in detail, is to show that mainsail control was very sensitive. Also It might be entertaining for you and thinking about it makes me proud. 🙂
Notably, this type of boats all have rotating semi wing carbon masts and use an extremely powerful cunningham as the primary means of power control. Pulling it hard enough will bend the mast a lot, flatten the sail and loosen the leach for a good depower. The main sheet is for trimming angles and for emergencies. The above method worked well enough to become what all did, in this close to limitless class. That means it’s proven to be good. I use the same method on our cruising cat (not the turbo cunningham). No cleats or jammers allowed on the main sheet.
Thanks Stein, I have never sailed that fast but I’m learning wing foiling so I’m experiencing some serious sensation of speed, with very fun wipeouts. My thoughts on his bungee was that he was playing the main: grind and ease, grind and ease. I think of those times when the kids are around the cockpit table, sailing inshore with wind off the land so puffy, and a big one hits unexpectedly, and even though you’re not right at the winch you just push it into the winch a tad so the drinks don’t spill….. BTW that trick about bringing the tail around is great, I’ll have to try that next year.
Hi Michael,
Yes, I saw that too, very cool. Got me thinking that something like it could be used to tail a JSD on retrieval for a single hander.
Being an old time 505 sailor I just love shockcord hacks. We used to use a bunch of them.
There is one thing I like more than bungee hacks: magnet hacks. What if each batten included a magnet making a straight line where the tl wants to be, paired with spliced in magnets in said tl. If it’s windy enough to blow it off it’s windy enough to reef….
Hi Michael,
Interesting, but what about rust in the magnets. Also it would make the topping lift thrash around much worse due to the added mass.
We have a cat, with the boom quite close to the mast foot, so a vang isn’t really an option. We have the option 3 boom lift solution, using a 5 mm Dyneema spliced at both ends, attached at the mast head, with a 1:2 purchase at the bottom end using a Ronstan Shocks instead of a block. https://www.ronstan.com/shock-red-suits-10mm-3-8-line.html I strongly prefer this principle over blocks everywhere the rope is mostly not moving a lot. Other brands also make great alternatives, also for higher loads and lower friction, but are not as cheap and easy to get hold of.
We have the adjustment line led into the boom, as it’s equipped for 4 reefs and our present main only has 2. It can be locked in an integrated jammer at the mast end of the boom or, via 2 blocks, at the steering position.
Hi Stein,
That looks like a nice piece of kit. Would be good on the backstay to pass the shockcord through too.
We are sailing a performance cruising cat – Outremer 4X – and there is zero room for a vang and there is no backstay – I am torn between letting the Topping Lift stay a bit loose and swing or pulling it tight and accepting some chafe but less slapping – especially against the leech (North 3Di sails) which will not be simple or inexpensive to repair if damaged. The TL runs from the boom and is sheeted at the mast. Would a dyneema splice be an option? Less momentum/weight to slap around and much more slippery than the line on their now.
Hi Steve,
I think I’d look at the idea Richard Richie suggests above; a batten at the top of your mast that pulls the topping lift up and aft. I guess you have a relatively big roach on your main, so the batten would need to be fairly long and stiff. Probably attached about horizontally in the unloaded state?
I’d strongly recommend changing to unsheathed Spectra / Dyneema, for its much lower weight, especially in wet conditions since it doesn’t draw water, and the smooth slippery surface that doesn’t chafe much.
Hi Steve,
I think you are right to worry about chafe on those 3Di sails.
If you mean joining to the existing topping lift (braid?) with a splice, then no, I know of no splice that will reliably join unsheathed Dyneema to braid. That said, why not source a full length line made of Dyneema core and Dacron sheath and strip the sheath for the point that it exits the mast to the boom end. You will need to secure the braid end to the core with a sailmaker’s whipping, see further reading above. Racing boats do this all the time to save weight.
Also, I wonder if you could still use the above hack from one back stay to keep the lift off the roach of that main? Might look a little odd when the boom was on the other side from the backstay with the block on it, but I think it will still work.
I like this better than my approach which involved attaching a pre-tensioned shock cord to the topping lift within the mast. It did work and kept the lift from slapping the leach and wrapping the back stay, but has the potential for snags..
Hi John and all,
I went a little different route.
My TL is fixed at the masthead and held with a lashing at the end of boom: basically, the TL is fixed in place and also in length at the beginning of the season and not adjusted during the season at all. This may not work for every boat as it demands the topping lift be just a scootch slack when the mainsail is really strapped down going to wind. And, following from this, the boom height at anchor is pretty much the same as close hauled sailing which also may not work for every boat or sailor, but has been fine for us. Not thinking about the TL’s adjustment is a blessing and it also pays dividends as my lazy jacks are set at season onset and never need adjusting. The older I get the less I like to think and to fuss.
To control the TL when under sail, I have a thick shock cord (for good pressure) fixed a few feet up the TL and then brought to a turning block at boom end and run forward to mid-boom to give it length. It is tensioned at season onset as well and then left alone. In this way, the TL is under a moderate amount of tension when sailing and tends to just hold itself away from the sail (for the most part).
I have used the above for a couple of decades, 2 ocean crossings and a lot of miles of coastal sailing in swell and not felt like my leach was chafed. Nor have there been comments from sailmakers who I try to get to inspect my sails on a yearly basis. It is a joy to not fuss with the TL or lazy jacks: once set at season onset, they are left for the season.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Hi Dick,
That’s interesting, but I think I would stick with an adjustable topping lift. My worry with leaving it fixed and that loose is that in very heavy weather when reaching or running and it comes time to put in the third reef the boom will droop while the reef is being put in and could catch a wave top. Not something that would happen often, but it only takes once. One of the things I like about slab reefing is that we can have rocker in the reefs so each one brings the boom a little further up, but to keep that positioning during a reef the lift must be tightened with each reef.
The other thing would be as a ex-sailmaker I just would not be able to stand watching the lift snap across the leach every time we tacked of jibed, whether the damage was real or just perceived. That said, if you have a lot of boom past the clew and not much roach, that might not happen, or not much.
Hi John,
I think I follow you.
When reefing off the wind, I try to have the boom end over (or near) the side of the boat where it is unlikely to catch a wave. Even with slippery track, it helps to not have the boom out farther as the sail will plaster on the spreaders. And, with a fixed topping lift, the boom end can never dip below that fixed length.
I figure I use my third reef once, perhaps twice, per year and the last time the third reef was put in in the protected anchorage in anticipation of what was to come. When already out, I do not remember being concerned about dipping the boom end into the sea. When putting in the third reef, the halyard is loosened, the boom drops onto the topping lift, the tack is fixed and the clew is then positioned bringing the boom end up to its quite high third reef position and relieving the topping lift of its duty. The shock cord is keeping the topping lift from mis-behaving too badly.
This has worked for me for years with no discernable damage occurring. That said, I believe your hack is really quite nice and a much better solution, especially for those who wish to be able to adjust the topping lift. I am really happy not to fuss with the topping lift or the lazy jack settings.
I am thinking about using your hack into a hybrid system. Although my topping lift has not been a worry damage wise, I do not like anything to be flailing about as it certainly does when it pulls and tugs on the shock cord. Your hack could go a long way towards having the kind of settled controlled feeling that I like Alchemy to have when underway.
My best, Dick
Hi Scott,
I agree, and this hack actually keeps he lift away from the leach, rather than just tensioning it.
Hi John,
My TL is also my spare main halyard. It does take adjustment at times at the mast, but that is usually done after hoisting the main. It has worked well for a longtime.
Hi John,
We have a beautiful Doyle fully battened laminate mainsail with a big roach (for a cruiser) and I so dislike looking up at the sail and seeing the topping lift slowly destroying the air-flow (especially in light winds), and the cloth!
So this “hack” works for us, but I have to admit it is not an entirely original thought on my part, it coming after we set up our two-part preventers for offshore in 2017, following exactly your method. The standing parts of the preventers work and stow so well, it got me thinking how it could solve our topping lift problem.
We have a Forespar solid vang, that has a super-strong internal spring. Even though our boom is heavy, we just don’t need a topping lift except at anchor in big winds, swell or waves to stop the boom moving around and making a noise. We don’t have boom gallows and we do like to have the TL ready as a back-up in case that spring were to fail, so usually either the main is up, or the TL rigged, or both. Offshore or on long coastal passages we remove the TL before setting off, but we can remove it underway also, using a boathook from the transom to catch the TL and bring it safely in reach.
Our TL is in two parts. The top running part is conventionally adjusted, with double-plait rope and plenty of tail, that comes up through the mast and exits over a generous sheave at the top of the mast, and with a spliced loop on the end. The bottom standing part consists of a length of unsheathed spectra (same length as our boom) fixed at the aft end of the boom, and with a spliced loop in the free end. When rigged it is this Spectra part that is mostly in contact with the sail. Around the coast, these two parts are joined using a soft shackle and the TL operates conventionally from the cockpit by hand or winch.
On passage the bottom spectra part is secured along the boom using a length of stretched out bungee cord sewn inside the plait. The upper (sheathed) part is secured using the soft shackle near the foot of the mast, and ready as our reserve halyard. We can then reconnect the TL underway, or on arrival by the mast, in complete safety.
BR. Rob
Hi Rob,
Sounds like a good system, although more complex than a boom adjusted TL. Although you do get a spare halyard, as long as it’s strong enough. Either way, good that you have devised a system to stay away from the boom end. It’s all trade offs.
Hi
Advice on accessing middle of back stay ?
Hi Neil,
A snatch block running on the stay and attached to the chair works well to keep you close to the stay. Also make sure you have a backup halyard. Reminds me I need to do a post on going aloft safely.
Hi John,
I never found any chafe on the leach of my main although my old main had an enormous roach. The new main -2nd season this year – still has some roach, but much less. But I must admit that the TL wraps itself around one of the backstays frequently. This doesn’t disturb me, as it invariably frees itself when tensioned. It can be adjusted at the mast and serves as a spare halyard also.
As my present main is quite new, why take a chance with chafe ? And I like the simplicity of your TL shock cord hack, so I’ll definitely rig it up next season. But now I come to think of it: Snowball has two backstays which angle from the mast top down to both counters. Well I think I will decide on just one of the staysto lash the block or ring to in the hope that the stretch in the shock cord will cover the additional way to lee when the boom is out on the “wrong” side. If that doesn’t work I will find a way to move the ring halfway between both stays.
Btw: getting it rigged up there is no problem, as hereabouts we take the rig down every winter, a practise that I came to appreciate once more when I had to remove the standing rigging on a race boat in France that had never had her mast unstepped for more than ten years. Getting the ss bolts out of the aluminium spreader ends was just hell. Besides I think you are right: it should be nothing very special to go aloft and do work or inspection in the rig, not even for a singlehander.
That boat had no topping lift and I hated the mains’l handling.
Is a modification needed for boats with SSB backstays?
Hi Tom,
Shouldn’t think an insulated backstay for SSB would make a difference (at least for the traditional set-up: some newer antennas go over or beside the backstay). The antenna lead cable only goes up to the lower insulator and after that, there is only the upper insulator along the wire. I should think the shock cord attachment to the backstay would be between the two insulators and that the hack would work without problem. Nor would I suppose the additional equipment to change the antenna functioning.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Hi Tom,
Good question. I guess if the shock cord were wet and bridged the insulators there could be a bit of RF leakage, but my guess is not enough to matter.
My boat is quite small at 26 ft and the wooden boom is a fair bit longer than the foot of the sail which doesn’t have too much leach. Nevertheless, a long time ago I had to go up the mast returning from Iceland to recover a chafed topping lift which wore against the sheave entry on the mast. Of course I can sail easily enough without a topping lift, but I always like one rigged in case the main halyard fails. I like to use a three strand polyester line with a bit of stretch. This has the great advantage that when you are moored you can rig the boom tent roughly in position and then tighten down the mainsheet to tweak it so the boom is dead level.
To stop the topping lift flapping around, I get a 2 m length of 8 mm bungee with a snap hook seized on each end. Then about 1.2 m up the topping lift I tie a rolling hitch in the centre of the bungee and stretch the clips down and fasten them to the boom. When I ease off the topping lift the bungee allows a small loop of rope to form above the boom but keeps the rest of the rope tight and stops it from flapping about. Seems to work for me!
Hi Alasdair,
As you say, I think the key is that the boom extends past the clew and not much roach. Anyway, as long as it works, that’s the main thing.
An Englishman showed me what I believe is the safest topping lift arrangement.
A line goes from the end of the boom, up to the masthead, then down the mast (inside?) and out to a mast winch or cleat. When the sail is raised, take a boat hook and catch the bight between the end of the boom and the masthead and lead the bight to a reefing hook on the forward end of the mast. The topping lift doesn’t have to be disconnected from the end of the boom. When dropping the mainsail, just release the bight from the reefing hook and pull the end that was attached to the cleat on the mast and tighten. Easy Peasy…
George system is not so uncommon on some older yachts, except topping lift at the boom end passes through a ring which is attached to a foot line. The line is pulled, the topping lift eased and the topping lift ends up stored along the foot of the boom and running from the ring back tot he truck at the mast head. It’s just a variation of what you mention without but without wielding the boat hook. I can imagine the topping lift frapping away on the mast, so hauling it off with a bungee cord to a shroud would solve that.
Hi George,
That’s interesting, but I have a hard time seeing how it’s easier than the solution in the article. We would have to go though this palaver with the boat hook every time we reefed. Other drawbacks I can see are that if the main halyard breaks or is let go the boom will crash into the cockpit (assuming no rigid vang) and also the topping lift when in the forward position on the reefing hook will almost certainly frap against the mast.
Sorry for the errors, I could only correct once…
The end of the story:
As we went to the Harbour Master to confess our sins, the only comment was: “This is something the municipality will take care of”…
So if you still wonder; I still have the same topping lift, and yes, I am going to rebuild it!
A good story what might happen with a strong topping lift: 25-30 knots of wind , 2 reefs. On purpose reef 1 and 2 have rings so the boom gets higher over the cocpit for every reef. My backstay are split , and too often the topping lift is jammed in the wire-splitter- so did the mentioned day.
Ss usual we were going to sail to the dock (almost 60-70 meter free space. Going downwind we prepared with fenders etc, furled the genoa, turned into the wind and eased the sheet, but alas, the wind was like reaching, so easing the sheet meant more speed! There was an apprentic steering, so I told him not to continue close to the dock, but he did not catch the order, and we were sailing along the dock with increasing speed. A light pole on the dock became very close, so the main was quick taken in to clear the pole. But alas, the boom passed the pole, but the bloody topping lift did catch just under the flood-light…
Well, the boat (16 tons) came to an sudden stopp while bits and pieces from the pole was spread all over the place…
As we dropped the sail an tied up, the two guys in the boat next to us, nearly dropped their cognac
Some editing issues, a phone is not the best when writing …
John, please add a line between the text box and the “save/cancel/delte button. With a phone its almost inevitable to push the wrong button
Hi Knut,
Yikes, that beats any of my topping lift stories by a country mile.
As to changing. the edit. Good suggestion, but I’m working on a completely new comments system, so that should go away anyway. Hope to have it up later in the weak.
Last winter I worked with Brion Toss on replacing the standing rigging and updating some of the running rigging. (Mine was one of the last masts he un-stepped before he passed, and it was the first mast stepped by his shop under the new ownership of his longtime business partner Ian). Brion really dislike the standard topping lift on my 1984 Passport 40 — in my case, it dead-ended at the masthead and then ran through a dedicated sheave at the boom end, internal through the boom and exited close to the mast and belayed on a cleat on the boom.
As I had a sheave at the masthead for a spare main halyard, he had me use my spare halyard as my new topping lift by belaying it at the boom end. The spare halyard runs back to the cockpit, so it makes it a snap to adjust boom height while securing the boom when not in use. At dock or anchor — and normal cruising around the Pacific Northwest — I leave the spar halyard/topping lift belayed at the boom end. I’m planning to take the boat offshore next summer. After reading John’s post on rigid vangs (I just rebuilt my QuickVang from Halls and happy to say they had all the parts for it) I figured I needed a way to prevent chafe from the topping lift/halyard on longer passages under sail. I figured the best solution would be to just move the spare halyard from the boom end and connect it to a belay point on my radar arch.
I have tried this out and it provides lots of room to keep it off my leach. Seems like there is adequate clearance between the two halyards at the mast head when sailing off the wind.
Simple solution. But I haven’t really tried it yet offshore. Am I missing something?
Hi Martin,
As I say in the article above, I really don’t like the idea of removing the lift offshore since it will get you close to the dangerous boom end. That said, I missed that point the first time though too!
If 12 strand dyneema really causes less chaff, could one just use it instead of your hack, John? Or do we want some give in a topping lift? But I may do this anyway when spring commissioning comes.
Hi Terence,
Yes, I like a little give in things like this, so I would make the line along the boom Dacron braid. As to spectra obviating the need for the hack, It’s still going to flay around if kept loose enough not to be a problem (see post) so I still think the hack makes it better.
John,
Having read about your setup, I understand that you propose to you loop and tie off the shock loosely around the topping lift. I could envisage that that creates a point of chafe between the cord and the topping lift rope. Have you considered the option of sliding a low friction ring onto the topping lift and then lash shock cord tight around the low friction ring. The ring will then slide smoothly along the topping lift as it moves. What disadvantages, do you see with this modification?
Greetings!
Hi Petter,
Sure, you could do that. Back in the day when I used this hack on my old boat we did not have low friction rings. That said, I used it for several thousand miles over several years (at least four passages to and from Bermuda) and I don’t remember any issues in that area.
Hi John,
I like that solution and I think it will work a bit better than what I have typically done. I have taken a bungee from ~1/3 of the way up the topping lift and taken it back to a point as high as I can reach on the backstay, typically with a ring lashed there. This works but does promote the slack being at the bottom. I got the idea from seeing people do it similarly but to the end of the boom, my thought was that going to the backstay helped maintain more uniform tension. Your solution with the block likely fixes the geometry issue which promotes slack at the bottom.
I am a big fan of having the topping lift just be a second main halyard if at all possible. Our boat actually has 4 sheaves on the front of the mast and 2 on the aft end, all identical. I can’t imagine why we would use all of the ones forward so we keep up there a jib halyard, spinnaker halyard, main halyard and topping lift/spare main halyard.
The solutions that people have suggested that involve retrieving the topping lift with a line or boathook if you also have a rigid vang are quite clever, I had never thought about it. One of the most common questions we get about using davits is how we get the griping lines all the way around the dinghy and the answer is that we throw them over and then use a boathook to grab the line again.
One other thought on this. People should work to not have the boom drop too much when they drop the main both for the topping lift but also the lazyjacks as they will both get a lot of slack while sailing if there is too much difference. On the first sail of the season, we crank the mainsheet in all the way and then adjust these. When a reef is tucked, a bit more slack is generated but on the lazyjacks, at least there is sail now filling it out so we have never needed to adjust them.
Eric
Hi Eric,
Glad it works for you. And good point on getting everything set up without too much boom droop.
On the various solutions with a boat hook, the thing that worries me a bit is the practicality offshore. In my experience the less time we have to move around the deck with something awkward like a boat hook in our hands the better—increases the chances of falling a surprising amount when the motion is bad.
John any suggestions on accessing the mid portion of the back stay? Seems a bit tricky to me like you have to go up the mast then pass a line around the back stay and carefully ride the bosun chair back down to where you need to get. Is there any other advise you can offer on this detail?
thanks
Nick
Oops I see the earlier post addressing this question. No need to respond John.
thanks
So John .. thx for a huge trick and info of your website… help me a lot in my refit project https://youtube.com/c/sea4see
My question for you..
I for sure will use HM halyards .. in this article I understand that I need the fuse”.. previously I used dyneema sheet for Genoa and mainsail.. please could give me your advise to get the best setup for cruising sailing boAt sheet and halyards? Thx In Advance
S/Y ellös
Hi Joshua,
We have a a couple of chapters on running rigging recommendations, including the answers to your question in this Online Book: https://www.morganscloud.com/category/rigging-sails/book-sail-handling-rigging/
Hi, John. On the discussion of dead-ending at the boom end, any suggestions on how to dead-end? Currently my topping lift is hard shackled to the boom and the squeaking is driving me mad so I was just thinking of tying it or using a soft shackle. I can’t really see any reason for a quick release solution (except maybe to use it is a main halyard replacement but even then…).
Hi Michael,
Just another reason to hate topping lifts! Anyway, I could be wrong, but I’m not totally trusting of soft shackles in situations where the line goes slack but if you are using the hack in the article above I think it would be OK, particularly if you pass the soft shackle though twice, as I’m doing with the one attaching out jib sheets on our J/109.
Thanks, John and understood about passing the soft shackle through twice. I will be using your hack because the damn thing is driving me crazy flapping about up there. One thing I have learned about the Baltic these last two years is that when the wind blows up, it doesn’t take long for the shallow and narrow waters to create some pretty rough sailing conditions so it tests the systems very nicely and not too far offshore before I head up the Norwegian coast next year (already started reading your Norwegian Cruising Guide).
Hi John, I’m about to implement this solution to stop my topping lift from snagging the mainsail roach. I’ve got a rod backstay and I’m wondering what is the best way to lash the friction ring to the stay so that it stays put and doesn’t slide down the stay when tensioned.
Hi Kevin,
I have used a good tight seizing with heavy sailmakers waxed thread and it’s worked fine on rod for me.
Hey, John. I am just about to put this into practice while the mast is out and I got a bit worried about point number 7 since I don’t have a way to go up the mast easily at this point. Just checking to see if you had any more thoughts since you wrote this on how far past half way the block should be because, for this season, I have one shot at this?
Hi Michael,
No, sorry, no further thoughts. There are just too many variables here for me, or anyone, to be able to guarantee that a given position will work just right . That said, I would be surprised if any issues would be too serious to live with for a season.
No worries, John. I put the block on today so we will see how it goes. Thanks.
On our Jason 35 I implemented a shock cord solution, but the other way. I clipped a small bronze snap to the wire topping lift (it’s what I had in the kit offshore). Attached a light bungee to the snap (here an anchor bend worked). Then led the bungee forward to a small cleat on the boom just aft of the gooseneck. Cheap, quick, and effective, and all accomplished on deck at sea. Easy to adjust the tension such that the bungee pulled the slack topping lift forward along the sail. The light tension kept the topping lift from moving around much, and I never saw any chafe on the sail, and no noise. When setting the topping lift for reefing or dousing, the bungee just stretched. Since the whole kaboodle was on the boom, it went wherever the boom went, i.e. out when running. When putting the sail away, say at anchor, just slack the bungee at the cleat and it lies along the boom, out the way and out of the sun. Worked well on that small boat.
Hi Randall,
That’s certainly an interesting option and way easier to set up and maintain than mine. That said, I guess I still prefer to keep the lift completely away from the sail, particularly on long ocean passages. Did you do any longer offshore passages with your set up?
Yes. That ‘invention’ was made on the first passage from Portland, OR to Hilo, HA. And then return. And then seven years full time cruising across the Pacific from Portland, ending up in NZ, including the NZ-Fiji round-trip for 3 years. Were I to refit I would use Dyneema instead of 7×19, but that’s the only change given a topping lift fixed at the truck. No noticeable chafe on the mainsail. I think because the topping lift moves with the boom, and I set the tension each time pretty snug, there was very little motion of the wire against the sail. I should add that I would slack the topping lift a bit, secure it, then tension the bungee – pulling the wire forward away from the leach. This also avoids a slack loop snagging on stuff – it’s always snug. Just don’t forget to reset the topping lift before reefing or dousing! It’s not totally automatic, one has to be mindful. I guess that’s the Achilles heel.
Our new good old boat has the more standard Option 2: heavy topping lift secured at the boom end, up over the mast head, and down to a cleat on the mast. Could be an emergency main halyard. But it’s heavy, cumbersome, in the way on the mast, and I am leery of a line out in the sun all time as a spare halyard. Hence my interest in this topic.
Hi Randal,
Thanks for the fill. Sounds like a good option. I think I still prefer mine, but then I haven’t tried yours, so who knows.