A couple of weeks ago we published a well-reasoned and interesting post written by Lane Finley on the benefits of traditional hanked-on sails over roller furling.
That post attracted a lot of great comments, both for and against Lane’s position, with a lot in-between. If you have not already read that post and comment stream, I urge you to do so. There is a huge amount of wisdom there from people that have done a lot of miles, as well as from those with less experience trying to figure out how to rig their boats right for their needs—we learned a lot from both groups.
We have long used roller furling on Morgan’s Cloud and would not be without it. The thought of changing headsails that can weigh over 100-pounds dry, and far more wet, doublehanded on a wildly tossing foredeck, every time the wind changes, gives me the horrors. I served my time as bowman on an ocean racer and I’m not going back!
However, roller furling, as Lane so rightly points out, is not without its disadvantages. Here is how we manage those disadvantages and the compromises we make:
Size Matters
Morgan’s Cloud is over double the weight and sail area of Lane’s boat. Having sailed and owned boats of both sizes, I feel that there is a break point at about 25,000 pounds (11 metric tons) displacement above which the advantages of hanked-on sails are outweighed by the dangers to a shorthanded crew while changing them.
No Overlap
I think that the single biggest issue that gives roller furlers a bad name is most boats have a headsail on the furler that is:
- The wrong shape: low clew position.
- Too big: 120 to 130% of the fore triangle area.
Such sails furl poorly, reef abominably, and require you to move the jib lead every time you reef the sail.
Advantages of a Roller Furling Cutter
However, if you do as we do and make the sail on the headstay roller furler a much smaller 100% high clew yankee jib (jib topsail) and pair that with a low clew staysail, also on a roller furler, everything gets better, way better:
- The combined sail area is only about 8% less than a #1 genoa for our boat and actually bigger than a 130% #2 would be.
- In the ocean, where power to push through swell and waves beats pointing every time, this rig can actually be faster than a genoa, even in light air. I will long remember blowing through a fully crewed Baltic 52 that had a #1 genoa up (a boat that gives us time and should be faster) in light air going to windward on the last day of the 1994 Bermuda Race on the way to winning our class.
- A smaller high cut sail roller reefs quite well. We find that as the wind pipes up we first reef the yankee to about 70% of its full size. Then we roll the staysail to about 80%. As the wind continues to increase, we can stay sailing and pointing reasonably well with the yankee reefed to 50% and the staysail at about 70%. That rig, in conjunction with two reefs in the main, takes us up to about 25 to 30 knots of true wind (near gale force across the deck) by which time all sensible sailors, at least if the wind is coming from where they want to go, are heaved-to. To do that, we just roll the yankee all the way up, tuck in the third reef, roll the staysail as required to stop the boat tacking, and we are parked.
- We don’t have to change the sheet lead as we reef because of the high clew on the yankee. (We do have to move the lead on the staysail, when we reef, but we have made that easy by installing Harken roller bearing sheet cars with powerful 4:1 control lines.)
Good Roller Furling Sails
If you are going to roller furl and reef successfully, it is really important that your sails are designed and built right. Ours are:
- Radial cut. Yes, it’s more expensive, but radial cut sails hold their shape better than cross cut ones, and that goes double when roller reefed.
- Have just the right amount of foam in the luff to absorb the fullness of the sail as you reef. Getting this right is more art than science, I suspect, but our sailmaker has it cracked.
- Built with good quality low stretch cloth. We use a cruising laminate.
- Equipped with a lightweight UV shield on the leach and foot that won’t adversely affect the set of the sail. Our sailmaker uses a self-adhesive lightweight shield, instead of the more common Sunbrella, even though it does not last as long.
The Down Side
Like most things on an offshore boat, roller furling sails are a trade off and there are downsides:
- When it’s blowing hard and the headsails are rolled, our boat is simply not as fast and does not point as high as she would with a well-cut blade jib. But I will share our dirty little secret with you: 1200 RPM on the Perkins fixes that.
- If we damage our staysail in heavy weather, we will be faced with changing to the storm jib without having the luff controlled, as it would be on a hanked-on sail. To make this a bit easier, we have webbing loops sewn on the luff that can be captured as the sail comes down.
- Roller furlers are more complicated and by definition more prone to failure than something as simple as hanks. Having said that, our Harken headstay furler is 26 years old, with over 150,000 miles on it, and has never let us down. (It has been rebuilt twice.)
- The furling line could fail and let the sail out in heavy weather. A very scary scenario. However, we are careful to always back up the clutch with a horn cleat when it is blowing, and keep a good eye out for chafe on the line. Bottom line, we have never lost control of a roller furling jib—the risks are manageable.
- A sail that is regularly roller reefed will not last as long as a hanked-on sail, or at least it won’t set well for as long.
Conclusion
Let me be clear. I’m not saying that our way is better than Lane’s way, or any of the other good solutions written about in the comments to Lane’s post, just that it works for us, and works well.
Comments
Do you have roller furling headsails? How has it worked out for you? Please leave a comment.
SlideShow
Further Reading
- Lane’s original post. Don’t miss the comments, there is a huge amount of good information there too.
- Colin’s post on setting up roller furling efficiently on his Ovni 435, complete with slideshow.
- Colin’s post on genoa setup to give a cutter rig more horsepower when the wind gets light.
- Lots more on rigging and sails.
Ken March 23, 2012 at 6:56 pm
(we have webbing loops sewn on the luff that can be captured as the sail comes down.)
This sounds like a great idea John, for all roller furling sails. How do capture the loops as you lower the sails and can you give us a more detailed description as to how many loops and extra cost from the sail maker?
John March 24, 2012 at 10:16 am
Hi Ken,
If you go through the slideshow at the bottom of the post, I have more detail there. Mouse over the image to see the cations. The loops are about every meter on the luff.
As to cost, it was not broken down in the quote for the sails, but I can’t imagine it would be very much.
Ken March 24, 2012 at 11:05 am
Thanks John, I missed the captions.
Dick Stevenson March 23, 2012 at 7:01 pm
John, You describe our sail combo almost exactly and we feel similarly about all its advantages. I would re-emphasize the pluses of having a higher clewed jib, a consideration that does not come up enough in discussions with sailmakers. One area we have yet to solve is making the leach adjustment line accessibly. We ran it around the clew and on down along the foot, but not quite far enough. Any better way? Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
John March 24, 2012 at 10:20 am
Hi Dick,
I agree, high cut sails have many advantages other than just being better to roller reef. One is that they are way faster with less healing, on a reach than low cut sails, due to the lead being further aft which results in more projected area and better reaching shape.
Alex F March 24, 2012 at 1:12 am
John et Al, for a yacht above the 25k lbs threshold, what would be your thoughts about a combination of a furling yankee at the front, and a hank-on staysail (in fact, two: one for lighter airs and another for when it is blowing)?
John March 24, 2012 at 10:26 am
Hi Alex,
“Morgan’s Cloud” had a hanked on staysail when I bought her, and it worked fine. Having said that, I still prefer having both staysail and yankee on furlers. The reason, other than my own laziness, is that we can reef both together to balance things up.
I would not bother with a light air staysail since it could not be any bigger than the normal one due to the lower shrouds. And since we only have to reef the staysail to about 70% size to go to gale force, I don’t think there would be much benefit in a heavy air staysail cut to that size. In short, more trouble and expense than it would be worth.
Dick Stevenson March 24, 2012 at 3:51 am
John, Do you use a cruising laminate cloth primarily for sail shape or weight of the sail? On my 40 foot cutter I have gone back and forth with my primary concern being sail shape rather than weight of sail on my smaller boat. I would also be interested in what you see as the longevity hit one takes using cruising laminate vs Dacron.
Thanks, Dick
John March 24, 2012 at 10:36 am
Hi Dick,
We choose and pay for laminates for shape and speed reasons, not weight. Do keep in mind though that just choosing a laminate is not enough. To get the full benefit you need to have radial cut sails made by someone that knows how to get the best out of both technologies.
As to longevity. We have been using radial cut sails made from laminates for 20 years and have found that for us they last longer than cross cut sails from woven material. But understand that we retire our sails when they no longer set well, not when they blow up. As a long term racing sailor and ex-sailmaker, I just can’t stand sailing with bagged out sails. I also firmly believe that speed=safety.
Our last set went about 40,000 miles of cruising, which probably means about 25,000 miles of actual sailing since, when in the north, where its either calm or blowing like hell, we tend to motor a lot. The yankee tends to wear out first, from the strain of roller reefing.
Svein Lamark March 24, 2012 at 7:19 am
Hi John,
Very interesting reading on rigging and fore sails. I wonder how you adjust the pressure on your two fore stays? I ask because I have often seen cutters with two furling head sails having problems here. Most of the pressure seems to be loaded on the front stay while the inner stay is slack. When tacking the inner stay is zagging and this also makes influence on the bending of the mast and the shape of the mainsail .
I also think you and Lane should remember that you have more seaworthy boats than most modern boats. The modern charter boats of Europe are difficult on the front deck. By safety reasons they need furling sails.
I also think that Alex T is pointing at an interesting combination of rigging. Ingvar Hansson, inventor of Seldens Furlex system and olympic gold medalist in sailing, has spooken to me on the same opinion as Alex T, both furling head sail and hanked on small head sails.
John March 24, 2012 at 10:48 am
Hi Svein,
A very good point. Proper rig tuning is even more important on a cutter than it is a sloop, and more difficult too.
Having said that, we don’t have any problems in this regard. We use a hydraulic backstay adjuster to tension the permanent backstays and this in turn adjusts the tension and sag on the yankee roller furler. More wind, more tension, which also bends the mast, which flattens to main too.
The tension on the staysail stay is controlled with our running backstays that lead to powerful two speed winches with 2:1 whips. As the wind increases we up the tension on the runners which tightens the staysail stay.
To make all this work, you have to get the relationship between the staysail and head stays right in conjunction with mast blocking at the partners (affects pre-bend in the mast) and the tension on the forward and aft lowers. In short, its a bit of an art, but getting it right pays huge dividends in speed and reduces healing.
John March 24, 2012 at 10:14 am
Good Morning All,
I realized from the comments that I had goofed and not included any photograph that showed overall how “Morgan’s Cloud” is rigged. I have now added one at the beginning of the slideshow.
paul Mills March 24, 2012 at 11:31 am
I find myself increasing unhappy with Sakari’s large and low cut genoa. witha heavy wind hank on staysail, ona removable stay. I look foward to the time when I can financially justify retiring the genoa and making a change.
Re dirty secrets – my Volvo Penta does similar behaviour, especially when family sailing with a light crew who want to be anchored for supper before bedtime!
Colin March 24, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Hi Paul
One area that I’ve always found roller genoas to be weak is when poled out for downwind running. If you unfurl them entirely the shape is bad and can unbalance the boat, to counteract which you end up reefing the sail to improve the shape!
A 100% yankee behaves beautifully off the wind, good shape and with the pole off the shrouds. The yankee cut is inherently stable, and there’s less chafe on the foot and the pulpit.
As John points out, in open waters the yankee performs well, and it’s only in really light conditions that a genoa has an advantage.
Best wishes
Colin
Dick Stevenson March 24, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Colin, You are right on to make that observation. Another plus to the higher clew is that when poled out, the pole is very unlikely to roll into the water as it is at the height of the clew. When wind is aft and shifty, we often leave our pole out for days at a time (carbon fibre) going from a wing & wing on one side to an empty pole and a broad reach on the other. This is made more possible as the pole is so high and not likely to dip its tip into the water. Dick
John March 26, 2012 at 8:43 am
Hi Colin and Dick,
Really good points. You just can’t beat a poled out yankee jib down wind, no chafe, easy to control, stable, easy to shorten down (just roll up a bit and let the pole forward).
On “Morgan’s Cloud” we need about 13 knots of true wind to make it work with a full main. Below that we either tack down wind with our asymmetrical spinnaker, or motor.
Andy Fennymore-White March 25, 2012 at 6:16 pm
Hi John,
You made the comment about mast chocking (“To make all this work, you have to get the relationship between the staysail and head stays right in conjunction with mast blocking at the partners (affects pre-bend in the mast) and the tension on the forward and aft lowers.”) I know that you use Spartite, and we are soon stepping our new Formula Marine mast for the first time. From what you say does that mean that you cannot make the spartite chock up until the mast is fully set up and tuned?
And do you manage to reuse your chock after stepping, or does it get destroyed by the yard when they pull the spar?
Regards,
Andrew
John March 26, 2012 at 8:53 am
Hi Andy,
Yes, that’s right, we fully tune the mast with it loose at the partners (hole through the deck). If you do it the other way round you will almost certainly get the pre-bend wrong, and if you do that, tuning the rig will be a nightmare and never come out right. I like to see at least 1/2 a mast diameter of pre-bend with the back stay pressure at about 70%. Of course your mainsail needs to be cut to accommodate this.
The other reason to do this is that it is extremely unlikely that the partners are exactly in the center of the boat. So if you chock the mast in the center it will either be leaning over one way or another, or out of column.
Yikes, tuning is a whole new series of posts!
And yes, we reuse the Spartite chocks. The key is plenty of petroleum jelly on everything before you pour.
Steve March 25, 2012 at 8:38 pm
Hi John,
On our last boat we had a Handy lock 02 series by Johnson Marine on the hank on stay and was great for adjustable tension on the stay. Would use the back stay tension to properly tension head sail furler. My question is what do you think of a 02 series adjustable turnbuckle and could it work to tension a stay furler to its proper tension? Then one could use the running back stays to give final adjustment or not use them at all.
Cheers
Steve
John March 26, 2012 at 8:58 am
Hi Steve,
This goes to the tuning issues I was talking about above. To get this right, you need to think of the rig as a whole and all the opposing forces acting on it. How you tension the staysail stay is pretty immaterial, as long as you can adjust its length easily during the tuning process. No amount of tension on the staysail stay will eliminate the need for runners because all you are doing is bending the mast forward in the middle. The trick is to get the balance between rake, pre-bend, and stay tension correct.
Dick Stevenson March 28, 2012 at 5:08 am
Dear John,
You touch on a pet project (likely futile) of mine when you feel obligated to insert “true” when you use the term “cutter” (photo caption). My goal is to return the definition of cutter to designate mast position rather than number of headsails. There are numerous differences that accrue with moving the mast aft (from sloop to cutter) which suggests keeping the distinction alive. Recently, most of the time I see the term cutter used; the reference is to a double headsail sloop.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy (a cutter)
John March 28, 2012 at 8:47 am
Hi Dick, so true. You only get the maximum benefit of a double headsail rig once you move the mast back a bit. On “Morgan’s Cloud” the mast is 30″ further aft than on her two sister ships, which are ketches.
Having said that, I have seen the cutter concept carried too far, with the mast almost in the middle of the boat, which is a poor idea, in my view, as it makes the headsails too big and thereby sacrifices one of the big benefits of two headsails.
Alan Teale April 23, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Hi Dick, I agree that the term “cutter” is not strictly correct for the sloop with two-stays taken down on the centre line in front of the mast. The definition of a cutter that I was taught is a sailing vessel with a single mast and two forward stays, where only the inner stay is structural in the sense that it is required to maintain the integrity of the rig. In a cutter, the forestay thus functions primarily as something on which to set jibs (and can be dispensed with when sailing, as required), while the inner stay is part of the mast-staying system (and thus is “permanent” and usually taken down to the stem). The two forward stays of a cutter therefore almost have the reverse functions of the two forward stays of a “slutter”. And it could be argued that the stepping of the cutter’s mast further aft than on an equivalent sloop necessarily follows from the foresail arrangements. All these things taken together of course contribute to the true cutters’ outstanding ability to heave-to properly and easily, a major factor in the their remarkable sea-keeping ability.
I should add that I do not imply criticism of modern large mainsail, non-overlapping foresail sloops, with or without inner forestays. The different rigs just excel in different areas, supporting the view yet again that in sailing most things are a compromise. Alan
Lane Finley March 28, 2012 at 8:22 pm
Hi John,
What a great post and the comments have taken the discussion to a whole new level! I like what you have done on Morgan’s Child and totally understand the size issue. My yankee only weighs 50 pounds dry.
For a brief moment I was almost convinced I should change over to furling sails. However, I caught myself in time and gave myself a good slap in the face. It was a close thing but I will stay with my good old hank on sails for a while longer. I do love the simplicity and efficiency they provide.
Happy sailing!
Cheers
Lane
Bob Tetrault April 2, 2012 at 12:47 pm
Hello, “Sea Return’s ” headsails, rig are similar to Morgan’s Cloud. We also share a sailmaker, which by the way, was crewing with me when “our ass was whipped ” racing to Bermuda. The ass whipping had more to do with a tactical mistake than boat speed but an AW just the same . Introductions aside, a lot of experience and best practices expressed . All excellent. I believe the most important point was omitted. Everything led to the cockpit , on furlers etc. nearly eliminates the need to go fore’d. That alone improves safety and the need to wake the off watch to reef. I have the added ease of a mast furler. Before condemning my mainsail furler understand the mainsail has a roach, vertical battens, and rarely snarls if operated by the same me.
Dick Stevenson April 23, 2012 at 4:52 pm
Alan, A very interesting and to me, new, derivation of the term cutter. You clearly have a historical perspective that has escaped my education. I am aware of the cutters you describe, but not from first hand experience. And I also agree with your last comments about the more modern sloop sail designs, especially when cranking in our large jib filled with wind. Thanks, Dick
RDE (Richard Elder) April 22, 2013 at 7:02 pm
If you can get past the fawning commentator, this tale about the consequences of loosening even a wash towel sized bit of roller furled sail during a major storm will give you pause.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hYtZrCRGd_c
John April 23, 2013 at 8:26 am
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the link. Good point about the dangers of any amount of sail being loose in heavy weather. To date we have avoided any problems of that nature, even though we have had the roller furler on the stay in very strong winds several times. I think that the secret is being meticulous about furling it tight.
A big point that is missing from the video is the folly of running a rally from Newport to Bermuda at that time of year. Such a rally imposes a “must go” ethos on people, when the seamanlike thing to do if a decent window to get across the Stream never materialises is to blow the whole trip off and move your jumping off point south to Norfolk, or even better, south of Cape Hatteras.
Of course that does not help you if you are stupid enough to head out with a poor forecast in February.
RDE April 23, 2013 at 9:28 am
Couldn’t agree more, John.