You are going to think I have completely gone off topic, or maybe off my head, but bear with me and all will become clear.
I used to own a computer systems integration company. We specialized in providing accounting systems to small businesses. This was in the early days of small computers, and business owners faced with unfamiliar technology were understandably intimated by the process of selecting a company to help them automate, so many turned to consultants to help them make a decision. One of those consultants was a man named…well, let’s call him Marco**.
It Seemed So Logical
Marco’s first action when hired by a new client was to spend many hours interviewing every staff member in the organization that had anything do with accounting and asking them what they wanted the new automated accounting system to do and then meticulously writing down their answers.
The Request for Proposal
He would then write a request for proposal (RFP), which was in essence a list of the features gathered in the first step. These documents usually ran to many pages and were often as much as an inch thick. Marco, being a helpful kind of guy, even added little boxes next to each feature.
After receiving the RFP, we vendors would spend hours striving to figure out ways to bend and massage our systems so that we could tick as many of Marco’s little boxes as possible, without stretching the truth…too much. Marco would then add up all the ticks on each RFP and the one that had the most ticks got the contract.
The Result
So, how did this work out for the customers that hired Marco? What was Marco’s success rate? Well, in that strange English game of cricket we would have said, “Marco was bowled for a duck”. (Translation for you Americans: Marco’s batting average was a big fat zero.) Every single one of those projects ended in disaster.
1. Seaworthy, able to survive a multi-day storm far offshore
2. A big pilot house or deck saloon. You can’t put a price on having sun in the main living area. On top of that 360 visibility from within I feel is a nice plus.
3. Sustainable – plenty of power generation and ability to be off the grid for a long time. Large tanks, Watermaker, Solar etc.
4. Lifting keel
5. Aluminium
6. A boat we can love and admire
7. Space for guests (sharing adventures with others is important)
8. Retain a reasonable value if we do sell
—————-
Out of that we sacrificed two massive tickets items no. 4 and 5 so that we could get 2, 7, 6 & 8. Will we regret it? Maybe. Time will tell.
Boat got: SeaStream 43
Boat close second: Koopmans 45
Hi Tim,
Interesting. One point though, number three on your list is a features list, not vital capabilities. I think it’s really important not to let features creep in at this point.
You make a very good point John. In engineering, we have a system not that dissimilar to what you recommend consisting of user requirements and system specifications. The user requirement states what the product must do and the system specification starts to get into how it will be done. For example, a user requirement might be that the boat be capable of motoring and limited sailing in water as shallow as 4′. In the system specification, you would choose between whether it was a lifting keel, centerboard, etc. Because shopping for a boat is not the same as designing one, a system specification should not be done. As you point out, if we go past the point of a user requirement/list of vital capabilities, we quickly eliminate many boats that would actually be suitable.
Eric
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the confirmation from another view. Also, you point about not even having a system specification really clarifies things too, thanks.
I had not read this before I bought the boat I have now, but oddly enough she ticks the boxes. Just luck, perhaps. I had admired the design and I wanted a strong. simple, boat in good mechanical and structural condition. Since she is rather like “Morgan’s Cloud” in size, shape, and and rig, I now pay great attention to what John and Phyllis say!
Hi Andrew,
Looks like you came at the process the right way. Glad it worked out. As I recall, you have owned a bunch of other boats, so I think that really helps when figuring out the process, particularly since so many of the things that the industry and forums (not AAC) tell us are important aren’t.
The big issue with computer applications integration & development is that customer companies need systems appropriate for the correct/improved way of doing their business, while customers’ employees describe, at best the current/perfectible way they are currently working, or, at worst, the way they would like to work for watever reason. So, application systems often end up as grossly inapropriate from the start, or, as an excellent way to freese in concrete a way a working that will be grossly inappropriate within 2 years, without any reasonable way to evolve at that date.
I sincerely believe that a decent part of current economics havocs can be attributed to computer application consultants of the last 15 years or so.
In theory, some technics like formal value analysis and/or easily maintenable applications and code could be very helpfull in dealing with that kind of problems. Points are that customers just don’t like that kind of messages, and computer salesmen just hate what their customers don’t like….
Speaking about sailing boats, I think that you get rid of the customers’ boss vs. employee problems you have to deal with in applications integration & development (the only guy you discuss with is the “boss” and is not suspect of distorting reality/perceived needs for whatever reasons…), but you are adressing a very complex market, where marketing and status-symbol considerations are very presents, and where average customers’ professionalism is supposed to be lower than professional applications’ buyers professionalism (I said “supposed”….). So, it is not a big surprise to notice “some” differences between best possible target and real target as it is.
The 58′ Alden “Trashman” was certainly an offshore capable boat, until the large saloon windows blew out when falling off a wave. True, they could have and should have put the shutters on prior to departure, but as they were not expecting bad weather… well, the rest is history.
1) Aluminum.. Good abrasion resistance
2) Centerboard.. I.e. Shallow draft.
3) Good access to mechanicals.. Too old to hang upside down with spinners in mouth to change an impeller.
4) Good sailing performance.. Can’t imagine why 😉
5) plenty of fuel & water storage… The limiting factors of Range and endurance.
6) Simple and easy to handle sail plan = cutter
7) Under 50 ft LOA
We really wanted an aluminum centerboarder. (Allures or Alubat) Could not find a decent one at the time we were looking.
We ended up with a Valiant 50.. 3/5 ain’t bad, I guess.
Second choices were :
Amel Super Maramu -we thought it too big and complicated (we were wrong!)
Hallberg Rassy 46 – teak decks killed that one, but otherwise an excellent boat
We do miss the shallow draft, it’s value is not to be under estimated.
We also miss not worrying about getting cosmetic dings in pristine gel coat. Stress levels in ensuring the gel coat remains pristine sometimes reach 11/10.
Hi Neils,
I think you certainly ended up with a good boat. And you certainly looked at good boats. Seems to me that your list worked for you.
All good boats, but isn’t this primarily a list of features rather than the more general list of vital capabilities you are recommending?
Hi Larry,
I agree that Neil’s list is a bit of a mix between vital capabilities and features, but on the other hand he ended up with a boat that did not cover two of the features (centreboard and aluminium) so clearly he realized that when it mattered.
Hi-John,
Mine is a question which based on Niels comment . I am looking at garcia yachts 57 built in 2006/7 in France it is out of the water for 7 years now it sailed very little since new, any advice what to look for after 7 years in the yard. any comment or suggestion very much appreciated.
joy
Hi Joy,
The first thing I think about with a boat that has been stored for a long time is the state of the engine and generator (if fitted). Diesels do not like to be stored for long periods. Often the seals and gaskets have problems to the point that the engine is never the same again.
If I were looking at this boat I would insist on an extensive sea trial prior to closing. This would include running the engine for at least 5 hours. At the end of that period I would check very carefully for oil and fuel leaks and then I would take an oil sample and have it analyzed by a lab for contamination by either metal fragments or fuel.
I would also expect to need to do a lot of work servicing other gear such as winches. And finally, I would expect a substantial failure rate in the electronics.
Hi- John,
Thank-you very much for the advice . As long time experienced on aluminum boats what other thing to look for. The yard tell me the boat is like new only the paint on the hull is came off which they send me pictures. Any rigging like forward back stay will be affected in this case ? Any advice will be very much appreciated.
best regards
Joy
Hi Joy,
For aluminium boat experience, just put “aluminium” (without the quote marks) into the search box, you will find a ton of stuff.
Not sure what you are asking in connection with the “forward backstay”.
With a purchase of this magnitude, you may wish to retain Colin to advise you. It will be money well spent.
We bought our first sail boat two years ago and had just learned to sail. It is a 35 foot cruiser and overall I think it is serving us well. But I agree with your post. If I were to buy a boat today I would be looking for something a bit different. In our case our mail sail and jib are easy to work from the cockpit. However, we are limited to only two winches on the cabin top. It didn’t appear an issue to us at the time, having no experience. But today I would want some winches easily reachable from the helm. I also want a cockpit that is easy to move around in. Our current cockpit has a table in the middle that one is always trying to jump around.