Are Refits Worth It?
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Hey John. About a year into a refit here. So far we’ve repowered and just finished completely gutting the electrical. Going to replace all rigging and sails before leaving to cruise. No electronics so to speak. Will replace stove (convert to propane). Already replaced the head. We kept a very very detailed cost budget and so far we’re 50k into it including purchase price on a W32. That isn’t bad. The fact of the matter is that we aren’t rich people and want to go cruising before kids. Our only option seemed to be getting a boat cheap and then making it safe and comfortable but NOT PERFECT (accepting that). We just don’t have the time/money to save up the 100+K it would cost to buy a boat turn key ready that we liked. The refit time is fun for us so we don’t consider it a cost. Its a hobby for the weekend.
So far our estimates have been right. And we were honest with ourselves from the beginning asking… “What if we have to replace EVERYTHING?” I think that is key, going in with eyes open initially. Second thing that has helped us greatly is that we know the boat will not be perfect or bristol. Our goals are Safe/Comfortable. Thats key to us right now.
Obviously we’re not done yet so we can’t give a full report but hopefully it works out!
Hi Tate,
Sounds like you are doing a good job and I think you are absolutely right that one of the secrets of success is to stay away from perfection. As a friend says, “perfection is the enemy of good”.
Having said that, I did find the survey’s comment of only having inspected 5% of the hull disturbing. This is a big problem area in refits and a real catch-22: To properly survey an old boat you should really take her completely apart. But no owner is going to let you do that, and who is going to pay for it?
Do keep in mind that you won’t know the real cost until you have done your first ocean crossing and fixed the punch list from that. Bob was pretty happy until after his first crossing.
Thats really the crux of the matter. To figure it all out you have to destroy the boat, but to destroy the boat wouldn’t be worth having it all figured out. In the end we bought a boat known to be stout and friendly for cruisers though slow and old. Its a dice roll. Lets hope it pans out.
I like the quote about not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Falls in line with my favorite rule… The 80/20 rule. If the last 20% costs as much as the first 80% of a job it usually isn’t worth doing. (Unless its safety related.)
Hi John
We went the start from scratch route and built a 45′ aluminum cutter designed by Ted Brewer. Buying used and doing a refit scared me, as there are too many unknowns. We took 11 years to build her, but that was the schedule, and launched in 2010. Total costs were just over 300,000 and somewhere around 5500 hours.
We are leaving Georgian Bay in June and heading to the east coast of Canada, then wintering in the Caribbean.
I teach Intermediate and Advanced Cruising, which enabled me to sail 1000’s of miles on other peoples boats while constructing my own.
Whether it be a refit or complete build, keeping motivated and being able to sail during the project is key to its success.
Check out the results of our labour at voyageursailing.com or on Facebook
Your website has been a great resource throughout the project.
Thank you!
Ken
Hi Ken,
Great comment, thank you.
I think you make a really good point. Your cost of $300,000 is not a lot more than poor Bob spent (when adjusted for inflation) and the two of you have about the same number of hours in. But you have a brand new metal boat that you know every inch of. Sounds like a way better deal than Bob got!
Of course, you won’t know your final costs until after you fix the inevitable problems after your first ocean crossing. But hopefully with your offshore experience you will have anticipated many of the common problems during the build.
Of course another way to look at it is that with your hours at just $20/hour, the cost of your boat is well over $400,000. Only about 20% less than a brand new Boreal 47. That confirms to me the old adage that if you want to build your own boat for the experience of doing it, great. But building a boat to save money, is a bit of a fallacy.
Hi Bob,
Great to hear that your second boat marriage turned out to be all sunshine and trade winds. However every good director should have alternative scripts in mind in case story line changes in mid filming.
Bob: Alt. Script:
After recovering from his financially devastating experience trying to turn the Fastnet 45 into the ideal cruising boat, Bob went looking for a brand new boat at the Annapolis boat show. There sitting on the used boat brokerage dock was the perfect boat. Sturdy aluminum hull with gorgeous lines that made all the new boats look like ugly ducklings. Ten feet longer than the Fastnet for little more than he had put into the earlier boat. Sure she needed paint on the topsides and new standing rigging, but weren’t those teak decks pretty? Passed survey with flying colors. Of course the surveyor didn’t climb the mast, and when the rigger went up with microscope in hand to measure for the new rigging he found numerous cracks in the mast track and spreader areas. Perfect time to replace it with a carbon mast for only 50K more. A few weeks later the bilge pumps started working full time. Hauled her out and stripped the bottom to bare metal. All those black peppercorns in the metal that you could push a screwdriver all the way through? Of course the surveyor couldn’t have been expected to strip the fairing off the bottom or trace out every ground from the generator and shore power AC system—–.
Moral of the story: Beware of Boat Lust! Fat chance of that— that’s like telling guys to not look at pretty girls.
Yikes, Richard, what did Poor Stupid Bob, ever do to you?
As we say in Bermuda, your roughed him right up. 🙂
ciao John,
my approce to a new boat is a little different from a refitting route,i try to buy the best custom (for my very personal taste) new hull and rig i can afford and do the basic systems myself,i usually do not thrust profesionals,live with a moked up interiors untill my bank account is a little happier and than little by little make her into a fully finished boat.i could write about the pro and cons for hours but my english not is not good enought.The final budget might be a little higher then a yard finished boat but the experience and the knowledge of our floating,’baby,, is immense
Hi Giancarlo,
Never worry about your English, you get the point across perfectly. Some of the best boats I have ever seen were built by a dedicated and knowledgeable individual like you, Andy or Ken.
In fact “Morgan’s Cloud” came into being in just that way. Tragically her builder died before he ever saw her launched, but his work and dedication live on in a great boat that we are privileged to be owned by.
Now to practice my brilliant Italian: Ciao!
Hi John,
A great story with I guess a predictable Bob, but was it that bad for you? Knowledge, experience and wisdom are hard earned! And you are now wiser and older but you are still going sailing.
Like Ken we have also gone down the new build aluminium route. It has been a hard and long- six years with perhaps 6 months to go. But what I would say is that we have enjoyed every day of it. My wife has learned to be a professional varnish sprayer and we have had the chance to work together three or so days a week- We know the boat inside out. It should never be about saving a buck. It should be about enjoyment, some folk’s are happy to charter a boat for their whole lives, others want really know their boat but they both go sailing.
Enjoy the wind, it is still free.
Andy
Hi Andy,
Perfectly said, building a boat from scratch must be about enjoying the process.
I have thought of it several times, but each time I was deterred by having to spend 6 to 10 years ashore doing the build. To miss that big a hunk out of the incredible 20 years of sailing that I have had on the present “Morgan’s Cloud” is, for me, just too high a price to pay.