As many of you will be aware, Randall Reeves just made a planned stop in Halifax after 227 days at sea circumnavigating Antartica as part of his Figure 8 Voyage.
(Randall’s original planned stop was Saint John’s, but he wisely diverted because of the unusual density of ice bergs off Newfoundland.)
I was lucky enough to spend a couple of hours with Randall on his boat Moli, most of which we spent discussing his experiences with series drogues designed by Don Jordan.
I’m working on an in-depth article on everything I learned from Randall (not a trivial task because there was a lot), but in the mean time I thought it would be fun to post a short video clip from our chat.
I have only lightly edited it because I want to preserve the reality of two sailors figuring stuff out.
Update 20th July 2019
We now know that my idea of using loops spliced into the drogue line won’t work.
John, great interview, thank you. I’m interested in the Makita unit you have used to “power” a winch – pls advise the model.
Hi Steve,
Full information here: https://www.morganscloud.com/2013/06/01/jordan-series-drogue-retrieval/
Thank you…but that link talks about a Milwaukee drill whereas your recent chat talk about Makita. Is this just an error?
Hi Steven, John made this error while talking. If you check the video again you’ll see the insert John has put in, correcting “Makita” to “Milwaukee”.
Hi Steven,
Yes, I got it wrong in the video, the post is right.
Have a JSD yet to be deployed in anger. Have Outbound 46’ which weighs 30k fully loaded so Jordan added an extension. We are two. Wife weighs 100lbs so for stuff like this she can tail but do little else. Our JSD is not on dyneema so it’s heavy.
Was thinking of setting up a double block at bow and single with becket on free end using dyneema. Put clip or shackle at bitter end. Use that with powered primary and additional loops in jsd line to retrieve.
Any thoughts?
Please give link on splice you guys referenced
Thanks
B
Lee,
Just for information I came to the exact same conclusion for my dyneema JSD after listening to this interview : an added loop on the rode every boat length made of different color dyneema line with a snap hook to the winch. A large block at the bow. Use my high torque Makita with a “winch bit”.
Unfortunately I have the same question you do : how to add a loop to an existing dyneema rode?
Yannick
Hi Lee and Yannick.
The splice I referenced is a brummel splice. If you put that into google you will find any number of pages of instruction. I have not tried this and, as I say in the video, I’m far from the the greatest splicer so I can’t give you detailed instructions on how to do it.
That said, making a loop in the end of the short piece would be a simple brummel splice and I’m thinking that then attaching the short piece with the loop in it to the main line should be doable using the same techniques.
If it were me faced with this, and given how important it is, I would probably take it to a good rigger and let him or her figure it out.
I believe it might be a huge improvement to the JSD if they came with a sort of “inline retrieval eye splices” out of the factory. At least if it were for me I’d be willing to pay some more for such a feature when ordering a JSD from Ocean Brake.
Hi Ernest,
Angus at Ocean Brake is very open to suggestions, so I’m sure he would do that for you on request.
I think we all as users and subscribers of this resource really appreciate the effort being put into gathering all possible real world information and experience of the use of the JSD, where information from the field is generally scarce. I suspect we will all be the better for the pooling of the specific details on this evidently imortant safety equipment. Great to see Randall talk about his use of the drogue, I’ve been following his blog since just after his departure. Looking forward to further discussion on what was talked about on Moli
Couple additional thoughts:
1. It would be worth experimenting with rolling hitches/prusik knots of various line types to see if one grabs where the others don’t. I used a long, old #2 sheet as my retrieval line, running that from the main cockpit winch, up through a block at the bow and back to the drogue with two rolling hitches in series to the drogue line. This #2 sheet was roughly the diameter of the main dyneema immediately following the bridle. The hitches would not grab. Then I tried using 1/4″ covered dyneema and a prusik knot. This also slipped. If a different line or knot combo could be found to work (e.g. rolling hitches of a much reduced line diameter, which I did not try), it would save the expense of the brummel splice solution.
2. One would need to be careful with the brummel splice solution in that the eye must be small enough not to snag *any* deck gear as the drouge is being deployed.
Hi Randall,
That’s true. When using shore fasts I have managed to get a double rolling hitch to stick using lighter line, when changing cleats on the boat, but then again the load might have been lower, so I don’t think I would trust that data point.
Having thought about this quite a bit since our chat I’m pretty sure I will add the loops if we change to a Dyneema first section.
I’m not too worried about the loops snagging when running out given that we deploy from a bag which can be placed with its mouth close to the toe rail where there are no obstructions. I seem to remember that you have enough room aft of the cockpit to do the same?
Hello Randall and John
I too would like to change to a Dyneema JDS for all the obvious reasons – it is lighter, more compact and has minimal weight increase when wet. And of course I have thought about the retrieval issue. I considered the Brummel splice solution and rejected it on two grounds – the problem of snagging during deployment and because I do not want anything that could adversely affect the integrity of the main rode.
The solution I propose to try is to put a cut splice in the rode at each retrieval step – in Iron Bark’s case every 7 or 8 metres – using shoemaker splices. The cut spice is made with a short length of dyneema spliced into the main rode at each end. The main rode is NOT cut in the manner normal for a cut splice. The splice needs to be fairly short to fit in the 0.5 metre gap between the cones.
This should be snag resistant and leaves the main rode undisturbed. The splice can be shorter than recommended as it does not take much load and the load it does take is only for a short time during retrieval – it has no effect on the rode when the drogue is doing its job. If a splice should pull, the only result is that you lose 7 or 8 metres of retrieved line without affecting the integrity of the rode.
Any thoughts?
Hi Trevor,
Sounds good. Not sure what a cut splice is, but I will look it up. Also, I was not in any way suggesting that main rode be broken by a brummel splice. Rather that a loop be made in the added line and that then be worked into the main rode in much the same way as a brummel splice is finished off. However, as I said in the video, I’m a not any kind of a rope work expert and in fact not very good at it. Still I’m pretty sure that someone like you, or our rigger (Jay Maloney), could come up with an answer that will not compromise the main rode.
Hi Trevor,
I just did a search and came up with the cut splice, but only for three strand robe, not Dyneema plat. That said, assuming that there is a way to securely work the added line into the main rode (and I’m assuming there is) I like your idea a lot better than having a loop flopping around as I originally suggested.
As you say, there might be a problem getting enough bury in both ends between the cones, but in the case of a new build that could be solved by just leaving a bigger gap where the splices need to go and then making the drogue a little longer to get the requisite number of cones.
Hi Trevor,
I did a bit of research on splicing Dyneema and also talked to Andy Schell who has done a lot of it. The upshot is that I’m pretty sure a cut splice is not going to work. The problem is that all splices in Dyneema plat rely on the splice being under load to compress the outer part of the splice over the buried part. But in this case the line between the boat and the splice will not be loaded so the splice closest to the boat will pull out.
The good news is that if we just make a loop in a short piece of line with a brummel splice and then simply bury the other end for 72 rope diameters (the standard guideline) and secure it with a couple of seizings it should be plenty strong enough. In fact Andy tells me that high end race boats often dispense with brummel splice and just use this bury method, even on highly loaded lines.
Of course that leaves a loose loop but I’m not sure that will be a big snag risk given how slippery Dyneema is.