In the last chapter, I wrote about the two different types of tethers Phyllis and I use on Morgan's Cloud. In this chapter I will cover how we build each type. Let's start off with the hardware we use:
The Right Tethers To Keep Us Aboard—Part 2, Construction and Hardware
by John Harries
Next: Harnesses and Lifejackets and How to Use Them
Previous: The Right Tethers To Keep Us Aboard—Part 1, A Mix
- We Should Focus On Staying Aboard, Not Recovery
- The Risks of Falling Overboard at Sea
- The Real Reason to Use a Harness and Tether
- Staying Attached To The Boat
- Flawed Jackline Systems, Part 1
- Flawed Jackline Systems, Part 2
- Better Jackline Systems
- An Efficient Foredeck Centreline Jackline
- Banishing Sidedeck Jacklines Forever
- Jacklines: Materials, Fabrication and Installation
- The Right Tethers To Keep Us Aboard—Part 1, A Mix
- The Right Tethers To Keep Us Aboard—Part 2, Construction and Hardware
- Harnesses and Lifejackets and How to Use Them
- Person Overboard Prevention—Use of Climbing Harnesses
- Should We Wear Lifejackets or Harnesses, Both, Neither?
- Which Lifejacket Auto-Inflator Should We Select?
- Person Overboard Recovery, Is The Quick Stop Bogus?
- Person Overboard Recovery—Our Replacement For Quick Stop
- AIS Person Overboard Beacons—Setting Up The Boat Alarms Right
- Possible Auto-Activation Failure of The MOB1 AIS Person Overboard Beacon
- Time to Stop Using And Selling Tethers with Gibb-style Hooks
- SeaAngel SA15 AIS Person Overboard Beacon Compared to The Ocean Signal MOB1
Hi John.
Thanks for a nice and important post. I’m convinced that the system you have developed now is a very much better one than any i have ever seen. Actually, none of the many hundred boats I’ve sailed have a system that is even decent. Most have harness systems I think may be worse than no harness at all. As I’ve ranted about earlier: False safety…
One tiny detail might be of interest. As an alternative to the Wichard snap shackle you show, the same company makes very similar snap shackles meant for high load release. There’s mainly one difference: The hinge is moved further out, close to where the load will be hanging. This way the pin has way less load an is easy to release. These also have a hole for releasing with a spike. I’ve hand released bigger versions of these with a load of more than two tonnes. Maybe these are better for the man end of the tether?
My cat is easier, but I’ll now go through all these issues with a critical mind and adapt it to your system. I guess I won’t be the only one here with that plan. I hope all reading here will also spread the conclusions made in this book. Close to every harness system afloat is dangerously flawed and must be changed. Few cruisers will discover this fact by themselves, until a serious accident happens.
Hi Stein,
Thanks very much for the kind words.
An interesting thought on using a high load release shackle. I too have used this type to release high loads (I was a bowman back in the day) but the ones I used (Sparcraft I think) were hard to use without a spike and impossible with gloves on. These look like they might be worth trying, particularly on a boat that has a higher inversion risk than ours.
Were you referring to this one?
If so, certainly worth experimenting with.
That is indeed the one I was thinking about. The Wichard Speedlink. I don’t think I’ve seen them without a swivel, but these swivels are very strong, rated at loads way beyond what would kill anyone, so maybe no problem? I’ve always released them easily with a finger, but on smaller versions the hole might be too small so only the finger tip can enter? Especially with a glove? Maybe too cumbersome to release? They do need to be lubed now and then, but my experience is that they are pretty close to everlasting.
The versions you think of might be the old GIBB hooks? Now I think Lewmar owns the company, but they made crazy expensive rigging pieces. I agree that those would be too difficult to operate without a spike. Also I don’t think they make them in smaller dimensions. The big ones are slightly overkill for this application…. 😀
The alternatives that Henning mentions below here are interesting. Both seem very reliable and less prone to being torn apart than the versions with a ring. Actually I’ve seen some versions of ordinary snap hooks where the pin would drop loose if the ring was torn off. Quite dangerous. I don’t think any Wichard version has that design.
The question is, what’s the easiest to find and release when you can’t look, while still being safe from accidental release? As mentioned, I doubt if a hole would work well. Especially the last of the versions Henning mentions, seems like it could be interesting.
I know the high-load-release shackles Stein mentions under the name “Trigger shackle”. They are intended for spinnaker sheets, were originally made by Tylaska (still are) but the patent ran out so they have been available from Wichard for a number of years as well.
With no load, they can be opened with a strong finger but for higher load a “fid” is available (or a marlspieker – German term – on a sailor’s knife can be used).
I have a few (from Wichard) and find that they become much harder to operate with a finger after they have become a little rusty.
http://marine.wichard.com/rubrique-Trigger_snap_shackles-0202040200000000-ME.html
Wichard made one from Titanium but it’s not listed on their web site at them moment. These may corrode less and are lighter.
The normal snap shackles you use have a small “key ring” to connect the pin to the lanyard. When you pull hard, that key ring will unwind and separate from the pin. I am sure that is what will happen when someone is being dragged or held under water and is trying to pull the pin in an emergency. When the key-ring is gone, there is no way to open the shackle other than with a pair of pliers. I have had this happen several times with pelican hooks on our railing but not (so far) with Wichard snap shackles.
Maybe this:
http://marine.wichard.com/rubrique-Swivel_eye-0202040301000000-ME.html
or this:
http://marine.wichard.com/rubrique-Tack_snap_shackle-0202040303000000-ME.html
is the ideal solution (no key-ring to unwind, opens under high load, doesn’t require a tool)?
Petal makes some interesting stuff for the “via feratta ” in Italy- vertical trails with fixed iron safety rails into which one clips. A lot of similarities exist with the physics we are discussing for lifelines, and their solution may apply well.
This link is to a double clip, with the sort of easy binders we like, similar to King, but, indeed, Petzl is an even more respected name among climbers. Absolutely the tops. They have others, and one which I have copied in my own tether construction, I will describe below. But first, Petzl:
https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Lanyards/SCORPIO-EASHOOK#.WLV3FJE8KhA
So, my adaption of the via ferata concept goes like this: starting with the harness connection, I used the same fixed Wichard snap shackle-it’s ideal. I use a girth high with about 3 meters of line ( I made this a while ago, and used 7mm perlon cord, which is not dynamic, but will be switching out to 8 DCR shortly) and then at the ends, attached fixed eye biners with a ring bend, and a sewn tail, as you have done with the estar.
The point of the girth hitch at the harness attachment was to create some dynamic give- as the load came on the system, the girth hitch lets the line slide through, attenuating the load over time.
I will be making some new tethers this spring using some of the concepts from this series ( which is really a useful bit of thinking, I must say)
Using the 8mm DCR, the Wichard snap and two easy binders ( I’ll probably get the Petzls)
The key additional concept here it the line movement through the harness attachment point. Petzl at one time made a unit precisely for that function, and may still. I am search for that, but have not fount (re-found) it yet.
is this what you are talking about
https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Lanyards/CONNECT-ADJUST#.WLWT9xIrJE4
Marc- no, that’s an interesting bit, but I’m remembering an older piece, with a designed loop to control release/ slide, I think the adjust is static when loaded
Hi
There are many good points regarding a well functional and safe tether system in the article, but I don´t agree on the use of the Wichard shackle.
In my job as a rescue man doing Airborne (helicopter) rescue missions, we only trust Twist-Lock carabiner. They have a two-step procedure to open to prevent any accidental opening, which easily could result in fatal consequences.
I don´t think Wichard shackles will be the right thing in a tether system because it can open accidental, with a catastrophic result.
The Wichards are right because they are more able to open under load. A twist lock will not do so. And, John’s thoughts on a sharp knife at hand are right on, too!
Hi Henrik,
I hear you, but we must also take practicality into account. Using a twist lock shackle (we have a bunch of these for other purposes so I know them) would simply make our multi-tether system impractical, and my thinking is, as I say in the post, that the benefits of said system far outweigh the dangers of an accidental opening that has never happened to me in 25 years of use. That said, each of must make our own call on this.
John – Thanks for this great article.
You have said that you don’t have a real solution for staying inside the lifelines when working on the bow. Would you consider the Petzl Connect Adjust Lanyard, used reversed, as a possible solution to allow shortening the lanyard as you move forward?
https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Lanyards/CONNECT-ADJUST#.WLWlRn-KQSU
Roger
Roger
Hi Roger.
I guess John has thoughts on this too, but what I think is that adjustable tethers mostly are risky. An essential property of this harness system is that we know for sure how far we can fall anywhere on the boat. It’s tested and adjusted to the exactly right position. Shorter gives no extra safety and longer gives definitive danger.
If we have adjustment, we’ll tend to leave it a bit longer than we need. Especially when the going gets tough, we tend to make wrong judgements. If I really needed a longer reach somewhere, now and then, an adjustable tether might work, but maybe it’s just as good to skip the tether and be properly aware that you’re doing something dangerous. If I have a tether attached, even if I’m aware that it’s bad design, it still makes me feel safer and act differently. Humans have emotions, which is very nice, but it also messes with our judgements…. and we don’t notice that until it’s too late. 🙂
Hi Roger and Stein,
The adjustable tether idea is interesting, but I think I’m with Stein on this one.
The thing is that on a cruising boat at sea that is well set up, going right to the bow is really quite rare, so I don’t think I would like to compromise the rest of the system in the way Stein details just to solve a rare problem.
I have been thinking about the bow problem and I think that I do have some at least partial answers, but I really want to try them out in the spring before I say too much, but one idea would be to have a very short tether ready to go in the cockpit, which I would take with me to clip on with if I were on the bow and particularly if fixing something that required both hands.
Hi John,
Thanks for the well thought-out series on this. Is there a reason why you don’t use the Kong Tango on the person end as well? I agree with your thinking on the inability to release a snap shackle under load so I assume the reason must be usability? I have never used a Kong Tango and was planning to when making up new tethers soon.
Eric
Hi Eric,
After thinking about it, I’m embarrassed to admit it could be that I’m not using the KT on the inboard end because I have never done it what way. That said, I think that the snap shackle is easier to operate one handed but now you have asked the question I wonder if that might not be just because I’m used to it. I will definitely make up a tether with KT on both ends and try it.
Hi Eric & John,
One area to watch out for with the KT and carabiners of their design (on the person end) is the square notch on the fixed end looping over the top. Things that are small can get jammed in it and be difficult to extricate from: think metal rings that are sometimes on harnesses/lifevests. If the ring is about the same size as the notch, you have the makings for a jam and or damage to the notch. If the pressure direction is right and strong enough, even webbing can be hard to lift out of the notch and then out of the fixed looped-over section.
I don’t see them as good for the person end of tethers for the above concerns as well as, when under pressure, you may be able to open the carabiner with ease, but you still have to generate slack and then move the biner over to actually effect release.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
I’ve used the Kango on the person end for 6 years. Never a jam or a hint of one. They are very fast an easy with one hand, and I do not have to confirm that they are closed (fabric can jam a snap-shackle not quite closed). As for quick-release, remember that World Sailing does not require a release of any type–this is an area where people simply disagree. For my part, I find a Tango much easier to detach/re-attach should I need to disentangle my self while working (we all get on the wrong side of something once in a while), and this is more important to me that the tiny potential of a situation where detaching under high load is required. I am primarily a single hander; you would have to try hard to convince me that detaching is ever going to be better. Even hanging, it is not that difficult for me to generate enough slack to unhook–a climber thing, perhaps. If the boat were inverted (that is a risk for performance cats, but not cruising cats), there is no reason to believe the tether is under tension. Catamarans do not have the bow wave drowning machine that monohulls have (the bow wave is small and we don’t heel). In fact, the greatest risk is getting thrown in front of the boat, if you stuff a bow and the boat stops–this is easily prevented by terminating the jacklines >6 feet back. This won’t happen on a monohull. Finally, I do not wear crotch straps, and without them, anyone can worm out of a harness in 20 seconds if they put their hands over their head, and relax. I have shoulders (can do 20 pull-ups), but when relaxed they get smaller than the harness. Thus, if there is too much tension to kip up and release the shackle, I can worm out; one or the other will always work.
In the past I had a snap shackle on the person end of the tether–I replaced them with Tangos. But this is a personal choice. As I pointed out, and contrary to the forum mantra, World Sailing does not require or even recommend any release. Just sayin’.
However, I can think of other boats and other sailing styles where I would prefer a snap shackle (crew, monohull), so I am not preaching. I believe the answer “depends,” just as John has what I believe are intelligent jackline locations that are quite different from mine. Different boats.
Hi Drew,
Thanks for the response. Good to hear your experienceand ,as always, well thought out and well put. Dick
Second that Dick, love your reasoning Drew.
Rob
Hi All,
Thanks for the feedback on this. I think that I will pick up a few KT’s and try them on both ends to see how they work for me.
Eric
Hi Eric,
I will be interested in what your conclusions are.
Hi John,
As we finish up our season here I thought that I should report back on trying the Kong Tango at the harness end of the tether. We switched to your system of leaving the tethers in place as well this summer so I don’t have a perfect 1 to 1 comparison. The short answer is that I really like the KT and will continue to use it until something better comes along.
Overall, the KT is my favorite attachment method I have come across. It is very easy to use but also secure. I like the light weight of it. Also, the ability to get different colors is great, we have 3 different lengths of tether and this makes it easy to tell them apart when putting them back on deck after storage below.
The only thing that I haven’t liked is the length of it. If you use a knot to attach the tether, shorter crewmembers can end up with this sitting uncomfortably in their groin area when seated. This problem has been largely solved for us by going to spliced 3 strand nylon (we only have 1 tether on a hardpoint and I am willing to make this compromise). The other item that I wonder about is how long the KT’s will last in the marine environment, so far there have been no signs of corrosion and I can’t see anywhere that the anodizing has been damaged but it has only been a single season.
Eric
Hi Eric,
That’s good to hear, and I love your idea of using different coloured hooks to differentiate tether length.
As to corrosion, some of our hooks are 10 years old, or maybe more, and still look pretty much new, so not a worry. Once a year we soak them in freshwater and then give the working parts a squirt of Boeshield.
Hi John.I would like to have some information about the sewing of your tether, as seen in the first chapter (picture in the basement of the mast). You say “read the linked post for the details” but I have not found anything…
(PS excuse my poor english, I’m french)
Hi Dupuis,
Sorry, I think maybe I was not clear enough, not your English. Anyway the post with the details in this one: https://www.morganscloud.com/2016/11/27/jacklines-materials-fabrication-and-installation/
And scroll down about 1/3 of the page.
Hi John
Thank you for useful and informative articles about tethers and center jacklines. I will try to adopt this on my own boat before season starts.
best regards
Lars Erik
Sula Bassana
Hi Lars Erik,
Great to hear that the information is useful to you, makes it all worthwhile.
Hello John
To what extent do you factor in the stretch percentage when determining tether length?
I am adopting your system ( put a high structural arch just behind the sprayhood to provide a high fixed point for the cockpit and make it impossible to stand under the arch)
For example a 12ft beam suggests a 5ft tether to end one foot before the lifelines. But 30% stretch on a dynamic rope to 6.5ft will go beyond the lifelines. This gets worse on a bigger beam. I guess the same would apply to a non stretch tether relying on the central jackline for absorbing shock load.
Regards
George
I think I should just buy some line and try the variables!
Hi George,
I discuss just this problem and the way we came at the solution in part 1. I also covered jackline deflection in the earlier chapters.
John,
What material do you use to make the crown sinnet lanyard?
Thanks,
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
Ordinary light braided Dacron line. We usually use about 1/8″ diameter.
John,
Thank you! I just purchased several Wichard snap shackles, #2471, as per the link you have in this article. They are 50mm long and looked a bit small for the job. When I tried to tie an estar knot in one I found that the eye was too small to allow 2 passes of my 9mm DCR tether. Are the snap shackles you are using 50mm long or are they the larger 70mm (#2472) model?
Thanks,
Bruce
I also found that the Pam Narrow 1″ webbing doesn’t fit either, no matter how hard I tried to distort it.
Hi Bruce,
I’m very sorry, I screwed up. I have just measured our shackles and you are right, what we have is the 2472 wichard that is 70 mm long.
I hope you will be able to return the smaller ones and I will change the post immediately.
Thanks for catching my error.
John,
It happens. 🙂 A minor blip in an otherwise excellent website.
I got a very good deal on the 2471’s on eBay, and the seller doesn’t take returns. I will be advertising them on Craig’s List to see if I can sell them, unless anyone here would like to contact me on purchasing some 2471’s cheap. I have seven.
Also, the picture is of the 2471 as well. Not that the picture will change much as the two shackles look the same, but the name of the picture, if you download it, is “A-WICHARD-2471-0002.jpg”. Just trying to be thorough to go along with my OCD. 🙂
Thank you for answering my question and fixing the website so quickly. Enjoy your vacation!
This article is really good and excellent points in the whole series.
I have two thoughts: Why not use carbiners at both ends of the tethers? They’re less expensive than those snap shackles, and, as you said, the snap shackle probably won’t release under load anyway. And on a monohull, even if the boat is rolled, it’d still be best to stay attached to the boat rather than float free. I recall a boat that got rolled in the Pacific a while back, the only fatality was the helmsman who was clipped to the binnacle. It broke and he was lost overboard.
I’ve quit using the inflatable PFD/harness combination and have switched to a straight pfd + a rock climbing harness. A rock climbing harness holds you with wide thigh straps instead of those horrible ridiculous crotch straps they’re retrofitting onto the sailing harness. And the clip is right above your body’s center of gravity, so you hang upright but not from your armpits.
Hi Jordan,
Yes, I think a Kong Tango at ether end would work, and might even be better than the Wichard (see my comment to Eric Klem earlier).
As to a climbing harness, this has come up a lot and there is a lot to like about them. However, there is one big downside: the time it takes to don them. See this chapter: https://www.morganscloud.com/2013/04/11/staying-aboardpart-6-harnesses/
Thanks for the reply John. Yeah the harness is hard to get out of. That’s a pain when I have to pee.
In the scenerio you describe in your other post, with snotty weather around, I would be wearing my mustang sentinel suit and a harness already, down below. Or probably even resting in the cockpit. But I mostly singlehand so I’m used to having to be in the cockpit within seconds of something changing.
Hi John and all,
Apparently, there was a sailing death last year attributable, in part, to a tether shackle/carabiner (pictures make it similar in looks to the Kong and others of that design) opening when it was loaded “out of line”. The “Safety Lesson” was written as:
To prevent the strength of a safety harness tether becoming compromised in-service due to lateral loading on the tether hook, the method used to anchor the end of the tether to the vessel should be arranged to ensure that the tether hook cannot become entangled with deck fittings or other equipment.
Initial findings can be had at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a535cfe40f0b648c72358ff/SB1_2018.pdf
and include pictures and a diagram, but do not comment on the design nor give the manufacturer.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Hi Richard
Practical sailor has a article on the same subject (same pictures, even). But they also tested the case where the tether fouls the clip closing mechanism leading to low (<300lb) failure loads.
I understand the vast difference of strength between an open and closed clip but the use of flat stock in those clip seems like a fundamentally flawed design. Look at climbing carabiner in cast aluminium like the Kong tango. Open gate resistance is better than the 300 pound tested by practical sailor and the 3D profile must give better resistance to lateral force.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/Tether-Clip-Update-12345-1.html
found through https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.ca/
Hi Mathieu,
Yes, I too read the PS piece, but I don’t think we should get to fixated on the clip, although I agree that these flat stock ones are less than ideal. The key take away is not to terminate jacklines on cleats.
Hi Richard,
The hook in question was one of the Gibb style on a tether from Spinlock.
I have never liked these hooks, but can’t claim any foresight for that since my dislike for the hook is based on difficulty of operation with gloved hands.
Anyway, the key take away for me is not about the hook, but rather that jacklines should not be terminated on cleats since I’m pretty sure that even the Kong Tango climbing carabiners that we use and recommend would fail when side loaded while jammed under a cleat horn.
Hi Mathieu,
My PS has yet to catch up with me, but I would suspect it would have a good deal more info than the very brief report I cited. Interesting that the pictures are the same. Agree on the use of flat stock. It is my understanding that an open-gate scenario is very unlikely (in an in-line load), but that a wrap-around-side-pull scenario is one that could occur fairly easily for those that might have slack in their jacklines or who have them go around corners. There are likely other scenarios, as well, to watch out for.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Hi Dick,
Good point that there are several set ups that can lead to this side loading and that we must be vigilant to make sure we don’t have any of them in our jackline setup.
An interesting report on shackles/carabiners from Drew Frye and Daryll Nicholson in this morning’s Practical Sailor e-blast: https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/Safety-Tether-Clip-in-Caution-12376-1.html?ET=practicalsailor:e37071:1991072a:&st=email&s=p_Blog030118
John
Thank you for the great series. I am going to implement your system but why not have a sewn loop at the deck end of the tether (with jackstay running though it) rather than the Kong. There may be some chafe which means more frequent renewals of the webbing but on the other hand, there is less hardware banging on the deck, it’s more cost effective and it eliminates the temptation for the crew to unclip that end.
Hi Kean.
I agree that this is a very interesting and important series, and I think every boat should implement systems based on this knowledge, since most tether systems I’ve come across (a large number), are dangerous because they don’t do what they’re supposed to do. They give a false feeling of safety. That means they make our tasks more dangerous than if we wear no tether, which makes us aware of the danger.
A sewn loop has properties I like a lot. Simple, light, fail proof, cheap, silent, etc. Still I wonder if it might give too much friction and become a hassle when moving. It might be better to have a small steel ring sliding on the jack stay. It’s light and fail proof enough. Or perhaps a plastic thimble spliced in would do the same job. Plastic isn’t strong, but the strength is in the rope. The only time it’s loaded is what we fall, so we can then just change the thimble, if needed.
The main reason for having a Kong Tango there is to be able to take the tethers away when in a harbour, to avoid sun damage and keep a tidy deck. I’ve been pondering this a bit, and I’ve come to think that I prefer to keep the tethers and jack stays as one system that gets removed together. The jack stays are also subjected to sun deterioration and are also deck clutter. I also have a feeling that the procedure with removing and remounting them is a good routine check for weaknesses. This system might on some boats even be less work than removing each tether and leaving the jackline. Either way not noticeably more, if the attachment points are made easy to use.
Hi Kean,
Yes, the idea of sewn loops has come up from time to time, and Stein is a big fan and makes a good case for it.
I, on the other hand, still like to stick with the Kongs on the boat end because it does give me the option to move a tether to a new new position (before clipping to it). We don’t do this often, but it does happen occasionally. We also remove them when not sailing for a while, so that we don’t have to replace them as often as the jacklines. (Replacing the webbing is a non-trivial amount of work since it involves hand sewing two super strong loops on each and each loop takes a good 30 minutes to complete.)
Having said all that, I think either system can work, although I have never tried the loops.
Thanks for the comments John and Stein. I’m going to have the tethers made with a sewn loop on the deck side and be conservative on the length. If I have issues with friction or flexibility, I can then easily cow hitch the Kong Tango on the deck end.
Hi John,
I have commented previously and find this subject dear to my heart having survived a MOB and swam for my life in 14 C water for almost 4 hours without a lifejacket…
I know you are somewhat familiar with the Boreal and thought I could ask your opinion (only that, no legal attachments, blame, liability attached here) on a suggestion to a system to rig on the Boreal to maintain centre line integrity.
As you may know there are hard points in the cockpit, so that is straight forward. However, it’s the transit out of the cockpit forward I am struggling with… The only system that I have seen runs jacklines from the hand holds on either side of the doghouse to the base of the mast (or it might have been to the granny bars.) Then of course there will be one line from the mast to the bow. Not ideal, but can you think of a better solution?
With the centre point mainsheet attachment on the top of the dog house and the subsequent sheeting and block system, attaching to the centre is not possible.
Like you, I am a firm believer; evangelical fundamental believer, in staying ON BOARD, any thought or rationalization otherwise is delusional. You go over, you die. True in my incident I didn’t, (in case anyone was wondering), but I was swimming in totally flat calm waters in the protection of Georgia Strait south of Vancouver. The ocean is massively different as you have clearly explained.
Hi David,
I would really need to be standing on a Boreal to come up with anything for sure, but what about having duplicating our system where we change tethers just after we get out of the cockpit. I think that should work, although it may need a couple of new pad eyes just forward of the dog house. Lot’s of pics and video here: https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/12/05/person-overboard-better-jackline-systems/
https://www.morganscloud.com/2016/11/11/banishing-sidedeck-jacklines-forever/
The key will be to measure it out while on a sister ship and then get the required pad eyes added during build.
Thank you John,
Ya…. I think I am too late to add pad eyes without marring the finish. I’ll ask. The hand rails may work better than I thought and keep the tethers short enough. Thanks again.
Hi John,
I went to a local marine shop who have staff that are off-shore racers to look at the Kong Tango. Have you ever experienced any sort of deterioration of internal parts due to dissimilar metals or interior springs rusting etc.? What about it scraping the paint?
They also had a carabiner by MakeFast out of the UK which has a double lock, operated by one hand, plastic coated and this year MakeFast have a new model coming out. The mechanism ‘seems’ much more robust than the Kong Tango but I am sure the Kong Tango is certified rigorously… you or Drew Frey might want to contact them to see this new version. It is a bit heavier than the Kong Tango but I am concerned with protecting the finish on the painted aluminum deck and cabin top.
I have a spec sheet from MakeFast but the new unit won’t be available until year end. I’m not sure what the difference is between the new and the present one.
Hi David,
No, no problems with the Kong. We just soak them in fresh water and then give them a squirt of Boeshield at the end of season. Some of ours are over 10 years old and all good. Also, the Kong is certified for climbing, so very rigorous and far better than any sailing certification. Also, we have not had problems with the Kong damaging paint. So, bottom line, my advice is: if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.
Very good, thank you John. I really did like the weight of the Kong and funny enough, I mentioned using Boeshield … that stuff is amazing!
Cheers
John, you mentioned that you attached your aft deck DCR tether to your boom gallows with a cow hitch. Did you make a knot or eye splice in the end of the DCR tether to do this? Or perhaps loop around with a figure 8 with follow through. Did you find one particular way was more secure using the DCR?
PS Thanks for this great ebook!
Tracy on Contessa
Hi Tracy,
There is no practical way to splice DCR (confirmed by Drew Frye) so I used a bowline with the end sewed down and then cow hitched through that. Like with the Estar that I show in the pics, it’s really important to sew down the bowline, or it will come undone when tied in DCR.
Thanks, John! That’s what I figured once I found the picture showing this on a previous chapter. Making progress on designing and implementing a system that weeks for out boat. Biggest issue for us is the tether lengths especially at the transition from the cockpit to the mid-deck jacklines and not violating the one foot from the toe rail rule. (Our cockpit coaming is a little more than one foot from the toe rail in our csy 44
Hi Tracy,
Good to hear that you are getting there.
And yes, the transition around the dodger is definitely the biggest challenge. I have been thinking about that part of it a lot lately, but can’t say I have come up with any great solutions. On a boat with a hard dodger a hard point in the middle of said dodger might work well, but, or course, not with a soft dodger.
Anyway, if you come up with any good work arounds, please share them here.
Also I also feel that combination with netting in this traditional area would make this much safer
John,
I have been using 7/16 New England Rope yacht braid polyester with a double braid splice on each end for my tethers. 6,000 # breaking strength with a similar stretch characteristics to climbing rope. Recently an engineer / climbing buddy commented that he would not trust my eye splice over a proper knot. So as a test I made a new 6′ tether and attached it to the base of a cedar tree with a lifting strap and attached the other end to the hitch of my 8,000# diesel pickup, the line finally parted in the middle of the tether after six pull tests leaving approximately 2′ of slack before coming up hard on the truck hitch and tree. The eye splices did not fail. Is there a reason why I should not use this rope for a tether? I Use Black Diamond twist lock carabiners and to to keep my tether away from the opening end I slide thick rubber grommets onto the carabiner with the tether in-between. The grommets also keep the hinge end of the carabiner from striking the deck when being dragged.
Hi Wayne,
Sure rope can work for tethers, but the drawback is, as I say in the article above, is that it tends to roll underfoot, which is why we prefer webbing in any location where a crew could step on it.
One other point, dacron yacht braid has much, much, less stretch that climbing rope, and so is not suitable in a case where we are clipping to a hard point.
Hi John,
I am finally setting up my MOB prevention system on my Boréal 47, Snowstar. One question on the DCR. My quick research has shown that there are three kinds: single, half and twin. Can you tell me which one you use?
Thanks, best regards, and congratulations on a great chapter!
Alain
Hi Alain,
I used 9mm and I think it’s half rope. (At the time I bought it I was not really clear on the differences.) I’m only using DCR in areas where I can’t fall far, and therefore half rope is, I think, an OK compromise between strength and thickness, even though it would not meet ISAF requirements. That said, if in doubt I would recommend using single rope.
For more on DCR and how the different types relate to POB prevention, Drew Frye, who is both a sailor and an ice climber, has published some great stuff over at Practical Sailor.
I am starting to put together my first tethers as per your model and I have a basic question. You talk about DCR not being splice friendly but you have stitched down your knot. I’m new to stitching and would love to get some directions on how to best do this. Additionally any advice on resources for stitching in general? Thanks!
Hi Travis,
The stitching I’m using on DCR is just to lock it, so it won’t come undone (a problem with stiff DCR).
AS to stitching webbing, you will find more on that, including photos, in this Online Book: https://www.morganscloud.com/category/safety/book-person-overboard/
More here too: https://www.morganscloud.com/2018/09/27/7-more-rigging-and-sails-hacks/
You will also find some great work that Drew Frye has done on stitching, over at Practical Sailor.
We changed some of our tethers to DCR, using Wichard Snap shackles on person end. Two questions: need we really be concerned with the split ring to which we attach our lanyard? If so, what is the solution? And if we use DCR for tethers, can I use dyneema for the centerline jacklines? I stupidly used polyester double braid, so now I have too much stretch in the system.
Hi Terence,
I have never had problems with the Wichard rings, so no.
And generally I don’t like Dyneema for jacklines unless very long. Think 40 feet or more. And even then there are issues that I explain in the Online Book: https://www.morganscloud.com/category/safety/book-person-overboard/
Hi John
Picking up on an old topic, corrosion in aluminium carabiners. While reading some stuff on climbing I came across advice to wash alu carabiners in fresh water after climbing on sea cliffs and this prompted me to research further on the Kong Tango. It might be a good idea to advise people using this system of tethers to follow the advice of the climbing community. There’s quite a good overview at “rockclimbingcompany.blogspot.com”.
Yours aye
Bill
Hi Bill,
That concern has been brought up from time to time, but we have always left our tethers on deck all year and then just flushed them in fresh water in a bucket once a year and given them a squirt of BoeShield. Some of the Kong Tangos were 12 years old when we sold the boat and still fine.
Hi John. I’ve been an avid climber for decades. Climbing gear of a variety of types finds it’s way aboard my boat frequently. I inspect it (biners in particular) quite carefully on a regular basis, and use it in all sorts of applications. That said, Alu gear is not used in lifeline rigging on my vessel, and the tethers are all made with stainless. I’ve seen the corrosion first hand. It’s a real potential problem, IMO. Any Alu gear on board is retired from climbing duty. Period.
I use slings and various ascenders and their ilk all the time, but I’d never trust any of it on the cliffs again.
Hi Erik,
I’m no expert on climbing gear. All I know is that we have had Kong Tango carabiners on our tethers for, if memory serves, over 12 years and have given them no special care other than detailed in my reply to Bill, and have left them on deck for months at a time washed with salt water without issues—amazes me too, but there we are.
Hi Erik,
One other point in favour of the Kong Tango clips is that Spinlock is using them on their premium tethers used on the Volvo boats etc. Those guys only use stuff that works and is robust in tough environments.
FYI. I purchased some 8.2mm DCR and placed an Estar knot on each end. I then sent it in to a local test shop. It failed at the knot with a pull of 3247 pounds.
Hi Michael,
That’s great information, thank you! This does mean that 8mm DCR does not meet World Sailing requirements, but on the other hand since it absorbs shock loads much more than most tethers will, I’m thinking we will stick with it in places where it attaches to a hard point in a place with zero drag risk, as we did on our McCurdy and Rhodes 56.