The plot thickens. I came across this product page at RobLine an Austrian rope maker and they have a bunch of lines for mooring, docking, that will be good for anchor snubbers.
Interesting quote from that page:
Robline caters to the trend toward using different fibers for mooring and anchor lines, depending on the specific use, and introduces cordage made of polyamide (known as nylon) in order to utilize the high elasticity of this fiber to cope with critical shock loads.
These lines are available from upffront.com, in Germany, who ship everywhere, among others.
Thanks, John. Being said member, I have continued my research as well and as far as I can tell, the letters H.T. are often not used when describing Polyester. Mostly they seem to drop it but I am assured by my supplier that good quality marine rope makers always use H.T. Polyester. For example, the Marlow website talks about Polyester on it’s materials description page but doesn’t mention H.T. But I am told (by the shop) that is is indeed H.T. I have sent an email to Marlow to confirm (btw, they also talk about Nylon on the same page): https://www.marlowropes.com/innovation/material-types/
And here is what Marlow says. I find the point about Nylon being Hygroscopic interesting as it seems to speak to H.T. Polyester being more suited to boat use:
The majority of the Polyester we use is high tenacity type. We do also use some recycled HT and some other specialised grades.
Nylon and polyester are different materials with a whole list of differences in their properties, the most significant ones probably being:
Hi Michael,
I have never heard of the hydroscopic properties of nylon being a problem in boat use.
At this point, I recommend just going with Nylon, since we have found a source, for your snubber and following the recommendations for size and length in the relevant chapter. To be frank, this usage has worked for thousands of sailors for decades, so it really does not need this level of overthinking.
Sorry, that sounds harsh, but as a bit of an over-thinker myself I’m well qualified to recognize the behaviour in others.
I quite like the overthinking on certain subjects since its actually not in my nature to do so (I tend to treat things at quite a high level the weakness of which is just doing the first thing that comes along that seems to make sense). But agreed, this subject is now done to death 🙂 Thanks again for your help.
Thanks for the reference about snubbers. I am replacing a Manson anchor these days with a Sarca Excel (the only one that should fit the arm design) and looking at ARMARE’s options here in Italy:
Square Line Polyester (8 strand braid in Polyester)
Round Line Polyester (12 strand braid in Polyester)
https://store.armareropes.com/eng/square-line-pp.html?linea=1279
What do you think John?
I am looking for something in the +10T Breaking Load for a 73ft carbon racing yacht.
Hi Anton,
I prefer nylon for snubbers since it would be hard to get enough shock absorption in Dacron without making the snubber overly long: Our full thinking on snubbers is here: https://www.morganscloud.com/2020/01/11/anchoring-snubbers/
Sorry, let me get this straight…
Nylon = H.T. Polyester (https://www.morganscloud.com/2020/01/11/anchoring-snubbers/#comment-303790)Dacron = ? Polyester (not High Tenacity?)? = H.T. PolypropyleneArmare Square Line PP
8 strand braid in H.T. Polypropylene with UV treatment.Multi-use floating line, for long moorings and towing.
Armare Square Line
8 strand braid in Polyester. Commonly used for the mooring of all types of boats up to Super Yachts, anchoring as well as temporary and long moorings of medium and small boats.
https://www.armareropes.com/en/mooring-line/
Hi Anton,
The key here is that the line needs to stretch as much as what we can Nylon here in North America. As I understand it, it’s common to use what we call Dacron in NA for mooring boats in Europe, but that use does not equate in my view to snubber use.
Also I would not use Polypropylene.
Anyway, I think you will find that we found products that equate to Nylon that are available in Europe (see above), so that’s what I would use.
Sure I get that John.
Looks like what you call in North America as H.T. NYLON is actually H.T. POLYAMIDE
You can see this in the title of this PDF from plam.it
https://www.plam.it/wp-content/uploads/150.pdf
H.T. POLYAMIDE ≠H.T. POLYESTER ≠H.T. POLYPROPYLENE
I will get my new snubber from Plam, cheers
In Europe, get:
Gottifredi Maffioli MAXIDOCK
which has a core in Polyamide and has higher stretch than Polyester.
Liros ANCHORPLAIT or OCTOPLAIT is another excellent product for a snubber or anchor warps, more expensive though…
So the European translation for Nylon = POLYAMIDE