The Offshore Voyaging Reference Site

Cool Boat—Dragonfly 40

I don’t generally put a lot of weight on magazine Boat Of the Year competitions, but I think Cruising World got it right picking the Dragonfly 40.

I haven’t seen a 40, but I have drooled over the web site pages and videos and I was very impressed with the Dragonfly 28 when I was aboard one at the 2019 Annapolis Boatshow.

So impressed that the Dragonfly 32 was on our short list when we bought the J/109, and might easily have got the nod if we could have found a secondhand one in our price range.

I could babble on for pages about the many things I like about these boats, but it’s the elegant simplicity coupled with pin-your-ears-back performance that really grabs me, as well as the quality of the design work and build.

Also, great to see a family business making boats and doing well.

Have a listen to the CW judges talking about the boat, particularly the guy on the bottom left. That’s Herb McCormick, who I often call the “Father of AAC”, in that he gave Phyllis and me our first writing gigs at CW nearly 30 years ago, and taught us a bunch about writing over the next few years—Herb is the writer I aspire to be.

He makes some good points on the design.

And here’s another video of the carbon version really kicking up her heels in a good breeze.

Of course the boat is way out of financial reach for most of us, but it’s fun to dream and we can also learn stuff by looking at really well-thought-out boats that aim to sail well instead of being floating condos.

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Stein Varjord

Hi John,
As mentioned some years ago I’ve sailed Other Dragonfly models a lot. I’m Norwegian and they’re Danish. In 1992 I met Jens Quorning, the first time, at the Formula 28 championships, which he was helping organising and also participating and winning. That was as crew on Nielsen Trio, which isn’t a Dragonfly but a much more extreme racing Crocodile trimaran from another builder in the same village.

Point being that he’s second generation of highly skilled racers. His father was best friends with Paul Elvstrøm, which is telling. Jens is super knowledgeable and super nerdy interested in everything related to fast sailing. He never stops thinking about it. Literally never. 🙂 The boats are really expensive, but worth it.

Scott Arenz

Phew, that second video really sets your heart racing!

I’ve always loved how fast trimarans look even when sitting still. (Haven’t had the opportunity to sail one at speed yet.) The Dragonfly range seems to have much better accomodations belowdecks than most speedy looking tri’s.

John & Stein, what’s your opinion on the Dragonfly 32 or 40 for passage making? Possible? Or would the necessary load weigh down the boat so much the performance advantage wouldn’t materialize / be worth the tradeoff of ultimate stability?

Scott Arenz

Thanks John!

Also, knowing the DF32 was on your short list vs the J109 gives me another reference point regarding its capabilities, since I’m familiar with the J’s and followed your selection process. With such different hull forms, my guess would be that the J109 is able to cruise somewhat longer (more food, water, fuel, etc) but at lower speeds.

Scott Arenz

Great point about the galleys. It’s definitely a noticable tradeoff on the Dragonfly boats compared to other vessels of similar LOA (which admittedly is not the most informative metric). It’s not until the DF40 that you get a galley layout that’s comparable to the J109.

Cruising on a lightweight performance boat seems akin to ultralight backpacking, with every piece of furniture and gear evaluated for weight and utility.

Stein Varjord

Hi Scott,

I think John is absolutely right. Roughly the same said in much more words:

Any multihull is more sensitive to weight than most monohulls. Cruising cats have two hulls to share the load, and usually make them rather beamy. This and their already significant weight means the performance difference from more weight is less noticeable, like with most cruising monohulls. They’re already significantly slowed down.

Trimarans have one hull to carry the whole weight. The leeward ama share some of it when power comes on, but the issue isn’t gone. They are more weight sensitive than cats. For cruising, they also have way less space inside. Most 40 foot cruising cats have 3 to 4 times the interior space of a DF40.

The point of going for a DF40 is that it’s a lot faster than the mentioned cruising cats, it folds to fit a normal berth and in the eye of most boat lovers, myself included, trimarans are much nicer to look at.

Can you sail a DF40 across big oceans, or even around the world, with your small family? Yes, absolutely. Is it the best tool for your purpose? I’d say normally not, but if you’re willing to strip away absolutely everything you don’t REALLY need, and simultaneously really need the speed AND the folding ability, yes, it’s great.

You can absolutely get 40 foot cruising cats that can match the DF40 on speed, with a lot more space, but they are not cheap and have far less volume and onboard trash (furniture, equipment, etc) than the standard cruising cats. The boats from Marsaudon Composites is a good example. Recently acquired by Grand Large, (Gunboat, Outremer and more).

A frequent misconception says trimarans are inherently faster than cats. That’s flat out wrong. As with any concept, what makes it fast is the same issues: More power and efficiency with less weight and drag. Cats and tris have different advantages and troubles, which the designer can use to adapt to the goals. Dragonfly has done this very well, but their goal isn’t primarily real long distance sailing.

Scott Arenz

Thanks for the overview, Stein! That seems like a very succinct summary of the basic tradeoffs of multihulls, and I learned a lot. And those Marsaudon cats look very sleek indeed.

I wonder if anyone has ever fitted a fast tri like the DF40 with a Jordan Series Drogue? But perhaps ocean sailing on trimarans is best left to the pros 🙂

Drew Frye

I love multihulls, cruised a cat, and own a smaller tri. A few thoughts, without digging deep.

I love a tri for day sailing, but for cruising I would take a cat. They are so much more comfortable. The bridge deck and hard top are great in the hot sun and the pouring rain, greatly reducing fatigue on passage. Not the slow condo-cruising type, though. My PDQ was close to my personal optimum for cruising.

You can’t press a multihull hard (some of the video showed the lee bow diving) unless you have the A crew on the wheel. Cruising, this means a performance cat or tri (the Dragon fly is very much on the performance side) will not be as much faster than a more sedate design as you think. Mostly, you will average at or just above hull speed, and then you will reef earlier, because you don’t feel like standing out in the rain, hand steering with the main sheet at hand. My F-24 will go 16 knots, but I wouldn’t put her on autopilot and go below at anything above about 7-8 knots, and even that depends on the gusts.

It does look like fun. A lot of fun. But I’d rather live and cruise on a cat.

Bob Hodges


We owned a Sprint 750 for 16 years so the same center hull and floats as your F-24.

The only two Dragonfly’s that I think were pretty edgy to sail were the most recent DF28 with the smaller floats and taller rig. Two of them capsized while being pushed racing in over 25 knots with spinnakers up. They no longer offer the big rig with the DF28 Touring model with the smaller floats. While I don’t think one ever capsized, I think the DF35 floats were too small for the rig and I’d bet that is the reason the DF35 was replaced by the DF32. I believe the DF28 capsizes are the only capsizes that have happened to the product line so the safety record is pretty good.

All boats are compromises and I believe most of us who choose to cruise on a tri do it for sailing comfort (i.e. how the boat moves through the water) and performance. We were quite pleased with the performance we maintained with our DF32 in what we believe will be our most loaded configuration for cruising.



Stein Varjord

Hi Bob,

The risk of capsize can never be totally removed, of course, but on most modern boats the main risk factor is the crew: Their competence and their intentions. Most capsizes happen when the boat is pushed, for fun or racing. Racing cars crash a lot more often than normal cars, not because racing cars or drivers aren’t suited for driving there…. 🙂

Dragonfly has had quite a few capsizes through the years, but most of them were on the earliest Mk1 model 25 footer. This was a light racing oriented little boat, no swing wing (no folding amas), based on the prototype, QuickStep. It set a new record in the Round Britain and Ireland Race, with Børge Quorning himself (the father of Jens) at the helm. Quite a feat, in such a long race and small boat.

The boat had small amas (floats) and a relatively narrow beam. The idea at the time was that one should take submerged amas as a sign it was time to reef. I think this is a deeply flawed idea, but it was the seventies… The next model, the 26 foot Mk.II, was the one I sailed from the late eighties. Also no swing wing, but a bit more cruising amenities and a more robust build. The one I sailed was a special version, with a bit more volume in the amas and about 60 cm (2 feet) wider beams. Børge denied to do it, but then accepted. (I was not part of that discussion.) It was better behaved in a blow and way faster than the others. He took the message, but not enough, which I have told him in person.

The next model Mk.III, was the 26 foot with a swing wing. Børge had his own boat, of course, and it had a bigger rig and several other go fast specials. He often went out alone on it. One evening he went sailing with his good friend Paul Elvstrøm, who is definitely qualified! (I’m sure you know that name, Bob, but for whoever doesn’t, Google it). They actually capsized, and had to sit on top of the boat overnight. This was two guys around 70, totally wet, and it was autumn at 55 degrees North, windy and cold. Critical situation, but they both made it.

The current theory is that the leeward ama had a leak they didn’t notice. My guess/opinion is that the ama didn’t have enough volume. Anyway, now they do have more volume. Jens, the current boss, has sailed a lot, and won, in extremely fast trimaran racing classes, including Formula28, where he also has been a world champion. These are routinely sailed with the centre hull flying, so he knows: Small ama volume, especially at the bow, is just poor design. Several current trimarans models still haven’t fixed that issue.

Multihulls in general, but especially trimarans, if they capsize it’s usually because they stumble over their leeward bow. That’s normally because it dives into a wave while reaching at high speed. This becomes much easier to predict and prevent if especially the ama bows have excess buoyancy.

However, the current Dragonflys are mostly sailed by normal sailors with limited racing pedigree, and perhaps no experience from fast responsive boats, like dinghies. That means they just don’t speak the language of such boats. That HAS to be learned. Skippers without enough experience from fast dinghies are incompetent on any fast boat. I know that can feel insulting, but it’s still true. Dragonfly just has to adapt to their customers. Take off some edge, like a tall rig option. It doesn’t matter if the boat should have that rig, if enough of the owners shouldn’t.

Bob Hodges

My wife and I bought a 2016 DF32 Supreme a little over a year ago and we love it. I’ll share our real world experience.

Personally, as a 65 year old, I learned to sail when I was 13 and sailed and raced many popular dinghies and centerboard boats (Laser, Finn, Snipe, Thistle, Lightning, and a bit of Star boat sailing to name a few). High performance sailing entered my life in the mid 80’s when I passionately raced sailboards for about 7 years but then became a performance multihull racer starting around 1992 with a Prindle 19, Tornado, and still racing the best boat I have ever sailed, the A-Class catamaran (racing them since 2001, on my 10th boat as it is a development class). I also purchased in 2006 a new Corsair Sprint 750 tri that I daysailed and raced for 16 years. We sold her when we bought the DF32. My wife and I have sailed a Maine Cat 30 in the Abacos and we did our honeymoon bareboating a Leopard 40 in the Grenadines. And lastly, I had the extreme good fortune to be the tactician and alternate helmsman on a Gunboat 66 (Coco De Mer) racing in the Caribbean 2010 through 2019.

My wife and I live on the Gulf coast (New Orleans) and the DF32 fits our needs well as a fast and super comfortable coastal cruiser that we can sail across the Gulf of Mexico, We intend to get to the Bahamas at some point and we have a good friend who lives on Roatan and we believe the boat is fully capable of making that trip.

We recently did a two week trip on the boat over Thanksgiving and coastal hopped along the Mississippi and Alabama barrier islands and made it down to Port St. Joe, FL and St. Joseph’s bay. The empty weight of the boat is around 7,800 lbs and we have estimated in our cruising mode she is tipping the scales at around 10,500 lbs. That is about 500 lbs over the recommended max sailing weight but 1,500 lbs less than the maximum capacity the boat can handle for safe sailing. What we are carrying on the boat in addition to the standard equipment and what one would carry for personal gear includes:

Bimini and dodger with interconnecting center section for full coverage of the cockpit at anchor
Two inflatable paddle boards and paddles
Outdoor gas grill/oven that compliments the cabin propane stove
10 gallons spare water (to supplement the 32 gallon tank on the boat)
Engel 12V freezer
Honda 2200CI portable generator and 5 gallons of gas (stored in an ama)
10 gallons extra fuel (to supplement the 18 gallon tank on the boat)
An 11’ Takacat inflatable dinghy with Torqeedo electric motor and extra battery
Two anchors (Ultra bow anchor with chain and rope rode, spare Fortress anchor with weighted rope road)
Code Zero with Furler and Sheets
RF Gennaker with Furler and Sheets
Tools (a lot of what John recommends, love the Wera tools)
Sailing spares and spare lines
Spare engine parts
Our dog

We configure the boat loading the two compartments in each ama with about 350-375 lbs of gear. We checked this out with Jens Quorning and he gave us the thumbs up.

Performance wise loaded as above on this trip, we saw in 12-18 knots of wind, 7.5-9 knots of boatspeed upwind at 45-50 degree TWA’s. Reaching with just main and jib in 12-18 knots we saw 9-13 knots boat speed, with Code Zero in 10-15 knots at 60-100 degree TWA’s we would see 9-14 knots boatspeed. Considering the loading, we were very happy with the performance and the weight did not seem to compromise the handling of the boat at all. This combined with the comfort the boat has with 26’ of beam really makes the sailing experience a delight. The highlight of this trip was a full moon 200 mile crossing of the Gulf from Port St. Joe back to Gulfport, MS starting out in 12-15 knots when we left in the mid afternoon and building to 16-20 knots during the night. We put the first reef in the mainsail and we were still doing 9.5-11 knots on a beam reach in 1-2 meter seas. Our only complaint was it was a bit noisy down below for the off watch sailor because the upper Gulf is choppy in any strong breeze.

We found we could still each take a daily wet down/soap on/rinse off style shower, drink and cook, wash dishes, and have at least 4-5 days of water capacity before we needed to top off the tank and refill maybe half of our spare water bottles. Range wise with the 18 gallons of fuel on board and 10 extra gallons we carry, we could motor for approximately 350 miles at 6-7 knots.

For DC power, we have one engine battery, a dedicated bow thruster/windlass battery, and three (3) house batteries. Our house batteries are Victron Super Cycle AGM’s which per Victron and Ocean Planet Engineering (who we got them from) can be discharged down much further than standard AGM’s. We never saw less 80% SOC on these batteries while sailing at night with running lights and all electronics including autopilot at work. Really happy with these Super Cycle batteries which I think are a really good alternative to the expense and complexity of a lithium system.

The boat does have hot water from the engine or shore power but we have no on board diesel heater.

We have no on board generator for 110V AC power. We use the portable Honda 2200CI generator for AC power if we need it outside of a marina primarily for either a cabin heater or a window AC unit that we built a companionway hatch mount for (from Starboard plastic sheeting). We don’t connect the generator to our shore power but run a heavy duty extension cord from the generator into the boat to a heavy duty power strip that the heater or AC unit plugs into. As long as it is not raining, we can set the generator on an ama and it is really not that noisy.

I’ll have to make more comparisons but the DF32 is really not that much smaller inside than most 30-34 foot monohulls I have been on especially since the entire cabin has 6’ nominal headroom. We probably sacrifice in the galley a bit but the combo grill/oven we bought works fantastic as we set it up on the aft seat of the cockpit when in use. Since we will sail as a couple 99% of the time, this means the aft cabin can be used for storage and that in combination with the ama compartments means we might have as much or more storage than similarly sized cruising monohulls.

As stated above, we can function well off the grid for 4-5 days before we would need to replenish water. I have seen one DF32 that installed a Spectrum watermaker in one of cockpit lockers and that could extend our off grid time for sure.

For offshore sailing we have two reef points in the mainsail and we want to add a third. We can change the headsail only by furling it which could be fine if we are reaching or DDW. We are considering purchasing an ATN Gale Sail to have on board if we get caught in nasty weather and need to go upwind.

I think we are happier with this boat than a comparable 38-40 foot used cat or monohull that we could have bought for the same investment because we just love the way a tri sails and handles. And the last benefit is that the DF32 is just a beautiful boat to look at. People are always coming up to us and telling us how pretty she is.

Hope this is helpful to others considering a tri.

Bob Hodges

Hello John,

I don’t believe we had a problem with handling or performance because we were only an estimated 500 lbs over the recommended sailing weight which as I pointed out is not close to the maximum safe capacity payload of the boat.

I’m not qualified to tell you whether you can carry more weight safely with a tri over a cat because I believe that is totally based on the specific design of the boat. The amas/floats on the DF32 are HUGE (we have the older design, not the sexy wave piercers). There is a lot of buoyancy in the ama design and the amas length wise are slightly longer than the center hull which really gives the boat a lot of pitch stability. I’m pretty confident you have to be asleep at the wheel to get in big trouble sail area wise with this boat especially if you are paying attention to the reefing rules (FWIW, as a double-handing couple we go first reef around 18 knots and 2nd reef if breeze is sustained over 22 knots). The fastest we’ve gone with the boat is 16 knots pushing it on purpose on a beam reach with the Code Zero in 15 knots of wind and the leeward ama will tell you when you are pushing too hard and either need to turn down or reduce sail. Our current mode of cruising is to try to avoid situations where we have sustained wind over 25 knots, thus our coastal cruiser preference. Our current philosophy if we see a thunder squall coming is just go sails down until we get more experience with the boat. We experienced close to 30 knots sustained in a cold front when we brought this boat from St. Pete to Lake Pontchartrain after we bought her and we ended up dropping the main and sailing with the jib reefed around 25%. We ran the engine with the reefed jib and it kept our speed around 10-11 knots. We need a 3rd reef in the mainsail if we intend to sail more than 25-30 miles offshore and a better smaller jib strategy than just furling the jib. The Gale Sail appears to be the best option at this point. The fore triangle and the spreader configuration on the mast prevent you from having an inner forestay for a storm staysail.

I do find that people make a lot of blanket statements about multihulls, especially trimarans, with no real experience. We saw this especially with our Corsair which (as an example) we were told over and over again that the boat could not match the pointing angle of a monohull upwind without the critic understanding that it’s a lot faster (and more fun) to sail at 8-10 knots at 50 degrees TWA than 6-7 knots at 45 degrees TWA. That VMG thing!

I’ve been very interested in following the experiences of Riley and Elayana on Sailing LaVagabonde (on their YT channel) as they just took delivery of their new Rapido 60 and had a bit of a rough 600 mile first passage crossing from Vietnam to Malaysia (to be fair to them and the boat they were forced to leave in a bad weather window by the Vietnam custom rules). The boat did fine other than some unforced errors with a tack failure on their staysail and some hiccups with both their electric and diesel power plants. This is a good YT channel to follow for those interested in cruising offshore on a tri even though a Rapido 60 is more of an end point in the discussion rather than mid-stream.

When I retire in 4-5 years, we will re-assess what our cruising plans will be. We may keep Storyteller if we continue to coastal cruise. I’d hope we have the resources to go to a bigger boat if we want to venture further offshore. The next five years and my fitness and health will also be factors in that decision (just like it was for you).

Love your site. I’ve been a small boat racing sailor all my life so cruising is presenting a whole new set of challenges and learning curves. The information here as well as Andy Schell’s sites (and podcasts) are invaluable. I’d love to do a trip with Andy on Falken!

Cheers mate,


Dick Stevenson

Hi Bob,
I appreciate your thoughtful, as well as detailed-filled, reports in a sailing area I know little about. I look forward to your thoughts as your experience in your new-to-you boat expands.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Stein Varjord

Hi Bob,

As another multihull lover with racing roots, I want to thank you for the exceptionally good observations and descriptions. Your competence shows.

Bob Hodges

Hi Stein,

We all learn from each other for sure and John has created a great place to hang out when we can’t be sailing!



Stein Varjord

Hi John,

I watch Sailing La Vagabonde usually. Not mainly for Elaynas charm. 🙂

The boat they went for is a Rapido 60. The boat is built in Vietnam, but is a US Morelli & Melvin design and the project is run by Americans in close cooperation with the designers. M&M have an impressive list of achievements. through the years!

The boat is a full carbon 60 foot trimaran. It’s way beyond “performance multihull”, a title that has become completely watered out. This one can keep average speeds above 20 knots over days, if run by a competent crew, and 15 knots is a leisurely average pace, not pushing it at all. The 45 foot Outremer catamaran they used to sail is firmly in the mentioned “performance” category. It’s significanty faster than most of the standard cruising cats, but still firmly in the cruiser category. It’s a very good boat, albeit in my opinion too heavy for the design, (the designer agreed). The Rapido 60 trimaran is on another planet in the going for speed business, which shows in build cost and creature comforts. The Outremer is high cost, while the Rapido is way more.

They just had their shake down cruise, forced by Vietnamese customs rigidity to leave with a very poor weather window, an approaching cyclone nearby, the boat not entirely ready and several other issues. Winds 40 knots for some time and gusting to 50. Torrential rain, sea sick kids, puke all over. A not very pleasant 200 plus mile crossing, with several significant systems teething problems, but they are still very happy with the boat.

The reason why they moved on from Catamaran to trimaran can only be answered correctly by themselves, of course, but I can guess:

Riley has developed massively as a sailor through the years of youtubing, from newbie to very competent. His pleasure from speed has developed simultaneously, and he’s always thinking about how things could be better. I think that has led him towards looking for a more extreme performance boat, just speed. Also, their job is to attract the interest and entertain their viewers. A new spectacular boat contributes big to that. The new one is arguably a lot more impressive and more beautiful.

I’ve sailed the exact same model Outremer 45 that they had. A shake down cruise across the Mediterranean with a new boat, from the wharf in the south of France to Tunisia in Africa and back. Roughtly 2 days each way. We were the owner, myself and a racing friend of mine. The owner asked us to show him what the boat could do. We had pretty strong winds, so we did. He said afterwards that he was scared, but didn’t want to say it… Top speed was 25 knots if I remember correctly, and average around 20 knots for much of the trip.

Outremers have a bridge deck height that means no slamming until the weather is fairly rough. It’s noisy when it happens, but it’s really not a problem. I’m 99% certain that had zero influence on their change to tri. Several other cruising cats are much more annoying in this respect. It’s an issue one should be aware of if buying a cat. No safety issue, unless the boat build is poor, but definitely an important comfort issue. A proper slamming can shake the whole boat as if you ran aground. Some older cruising cats would have so narrow hulls that they were always overloaded when cruising. They could get noise from waves even when at anchor in normal conditions. That’s a disqualification of the whole boat. No newer designs I know of are that bad.

Stein Varjord

Hi John,

I absolutely agree that slamming is a fundamental drawback of cats, of the same type as heeling on monohulls. However, on a well designed boat, it’s far less annoying than heel. There is no realistic cat that never has serious slamming. It can sometimes lift you clear of your bunk. That wakes you up!

However, having sailed the exact same boat that they have in proper waves and at much higher speed than they ever did, I can say categorically that it’s a good boat in that respect. It did slam, but not hard and not often, even at +20 knots SOG steady. However, the boat I sailed was not at all a loaded down liveaboard. Just basic cruising ready with 3 people onboard, luggage for a 10 day trip. Riley is very aware of keeping weight out, but when living aboard, there’s no way to avoid a significant loading, which will certainly increase slamming some. This is one of the reasons it’s a bad idea to buy a fast cat with narrow hulls and then load it down. Fast multihulls DEMAND a weight fanatic crew.

The “word on the street” is that they got their boat nearly for free, but that’s not true. I have it from good sources (the wharf) that they got a discount, which I can’t verify, but probably 10%, some say 20%. I actually think they should have demanded a better deal, considering what their marketing value has been. The main deal was that they didn’t have to pay all up front, but pay as they could, with very low interest rates, just keeping up with inflation. The amount from the sale of their old boat went straight in as downpayment. That’s why they worked like crazy for a while, to get ahead on that. Also why Elayna had a burnout recently.

I think the main issue with taking their word for granted isn’t mainly loyalty to the wharf, but the need to entertain, have a story, engage the viewer. If there’s no drama, they exaggerate a bit on what there is. I don’t know if that was the case in the video you mention, as I don’t know if I’ve seen it. It might be the one where they sailed with Greta Thunberg across the North Atlantic from the US to Europe in late autumn? As expected, they had very heavy weather and quite cold the whole way, with lots of slamming. Not very pleasant, of course, but it would certainly not have felt better on any other similar boat. Shit weather gives suffering on any boat. It just manifests in different ways.

Stein Varjord

One more thing. You mention build quality of Outremer. Since I haven’t owned one, I can’t really say for sure, but I know and am in contact with many owners, have sailed a few more boats shortly and have looked at many more of their boats, so I do have an impression.

They make boats that are not at the top price segment, (GunBoat is another of their brands which is certainly top end) but still pretty high. If I was a buyer, I’d not be happy with several of the materials and solutions in the interior. I’d also select other hardware some places on deck. I also think the boat is about one metric tonne too heavily built. However, I’m a total perfectionist speed fanatic and have never seen a brand new boat, no matter what price, without finding things I don’t like.

FWIW, I think the Outremers are quite well designed, reasonably good build quality, but with significant teething issues some years ago that have gradually improved. On the exact same points, they are leagues ahead of the leading cruising cat brands (as well as ditto cruising mono brands). That might be why the owner company, Grand Large, is steadily growing and buying other companies.