The Offshore Voyaging Reference Site

A Sail Away Offshore Cruising Boat For Less Than US$100,000—Introduction

For some time, John and I have been discussing whether it’s possible (or even sane) to buy and refit an older boat to a seaworthy, ocean-going standard, on a maximum budget of US$100K.

As we both tried similar capers in our younger years, this at first glance seemed straightforward enough, just as I remember it did first time around. But years later the awful memories have come flooding back, starkly revealing the reality of that crack-brained endeavour—what was I thinking of?

But human nature being what it is, I know that there are at least some of you out there with minimal budgets desperate to throw off the lines and head for the horizon. And the very best of luck to you—if I was twenty-odd years old again I’d be right there with you.

So, for you ‘dreamers by day’ who are determined to give this a go, here are some thoughts on how to buy and re-fit an old, basically sound, boat and head for far horizons on a budget of $US100,000.

It’s not just about the boat….

In my view, no-one should take on a major refit without an honest appraisal of:


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Rob Gill

Hi Colin, John,
Really interesting series idea – very cool.
In your list of potential “project” boats you don’t mention your criteria though: double handed? Live aboard?
But in particular, are you considering the project cost up until launch only? Or say a likely five or seven year total cost of ownership which could be very different depending on the yacht?
My main question though, is why cut off at the mid 90’s? Is this because you really need 50% of your budget for new offshore gear – $50k (not unrealistic)? Is there not a case for finding a mid 2000’s yacht with less refit needed? Particularly if you factor in your reduced time off work and reduced boatyard charges in the cost model? And then factor the lower on-going maintenance costs of a lightly used boat over the 5-7 years?
Perhaps worth consideration anyway – so my suggestion in this vein is something like this:
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2006/beneteau-oceanis-clipper-393-2903938/
Stronger hull and appendage wise than a few of the boats on your list and would allow close to $30k for upgraded ground tackle, modern feathering prop and offshore safety gear. With the modern prop you could lose the bow thruster and sell that – won’t be needed. One or both quarter cabins could be sensibly stripped out, to provide for long term storage and spares, with space for a single pilot berth?
By the way – if starting cruising in the Med on a budget, I have been told that the magic number for most of Europe is to be under 40 foot (which the B393 is by a whisker). The under 40 foot category has half the mooring and handling charges as the next category up!
Br. Rob

John Harries

Hi Rob,

Note Colin wrote:
Every sailor has their preferences, but for the purposes of this article I’m going to keep the focus relatively narrow, to encompass a modest range of potentially suitable boats, otherwise there are simply too many variables.

So sure, there are other ways to get the job done.

As to live aboard, or double handed etc, I don’t think it much matters for the purposes of this series.

Bottom line, this is not a series about boat selection, we have already done that in huge detail in other parts of the Online Book, it’s about what to do when you have decided what boat you want and how to bring it in under $100K

Rob Gill

Gotcha.
Rob

Mark Wilson

Dear Colin and John

I think I may have solved your problem; or at least one of your readers’ problem. There’s a Sigma 41 for sale in Southampton that has recently been refitted for a short handed ARC dream that never materialised. Everything new and seriously upgraded just about as far as I can see. Yours for £45,000 ($58,949 US at tonight’s rates). The refit probably cost more than the asking price. Not sure I would want a boat built by Marine Projects but many don’t share my prejudices.

Have been seriously impressed by the Sun Fizz after overcoming my disdain for French Tupperware. With that budget you could have the best one in the world.

Would be most tempted by the S&S Tartan. All boats are cramped to some extent but the sheer joy of looking at those lines as I rowed away from her would lift my soul every time.

Meanwhile, in other news, I am just about to make an offer in principle on my 40 foot dream boat. Sight unseen and subject to inspection both by myself and an unbiased professional of course.

Best, Mark

John Harries

Hi Mark,

I looked at that Sigma when putting the list together. That said sadly there is often a big gap between the broker’s idea of fully refitted and ready to cross oceans and reality. For example, the first two questions I would ask about that boat are have the keel and rudder been off and properly inspected? That said, even if the answer is no that boat seems to be a good candidate to come in under the budget.

Richard Neve

Mark and John, I have a 1986 Sigma which is an excellent sailing vessel at a reasonable cost.Construction quality is better than most popular cruising boats. I have had no problems with construction quality.

Philip Wilkie

Wonderful plan. Looking forward to this a lot … although a tad frustrating as I’m right in the middle of exactly this project and it’s coming about 2 months too late to be really useful to me. But that’s not your fault; I’m going to have to make the best of it.

So far I can absolutely confirm the validity of the points made. First up a hull with a configuration and condition that’s going to work for the kind of sailing you want to do, and isn’t going to derail the budget, money and time-wise. (Unless of course doing up old boats is your thing … in that respect the utterly OCD Danish dude Mads … SailLife on YT… will be an inspiration. This guy has literally rebuilt everything on his Valiant 40 to the extent that no surface or component remains untouched. But his methodical, intelligent approach to every task proves it can be done.)

I chose a steel round bilge Adams 40, a classic Australian cruiser, 3/4 cutaway shoal keel, skeg protected rudder, cutter rigged and well built. The hull and mast are in good condition, I’m keeping the ancient Yanmar 3QM30 and replacing virtually every other bolted on system, electrics, wiring, comms … the lot. Plus a lot of paint. Fortunately there is only a very modest amount of rust, nothing that cannot be easily fixed.

The challenge was finding the right place to do it, and in this I’ve been incredibly fortunate. We’re working and living at a major club/yard in Brisbane with all the facilities and assistance we need. As you say, having company that understands what you’re going through and is supportive makes a huge difference. Plus some really good tradesmen. I find it you treat them with respect and pay them on time, they can be your best ally with both advice and access to tools and workspace. I make time to get out on the Wednesday club sail and socialise at the clubhouse Fridays; we’ve met many great people and each one of them teaches us something along the way.

In a big marina like this it wasn’t too hard to find another spacious boat to rent. It means we’re living separate to the mess and this is enormously helpful. A good shower … absolutely vital.

As for the skillset, well I’m one of those boomer generation types your describe … pretty much everything is doable, but I’ve yet to learn TIG welding. That’s my next challenge.

All I really want now is all of your planned installments in this series … tomorrow 🙂

Erik Rudels

Hi Philip,
Similar situation for me also in steel 42 feet
Re-power and engine bay this summer as well as interior to a live aboard level this summer. Good luck with your project!
, Erik

Philip Wilkie

Nice boat. The cockpit looks very comfortable, the electrics are immaculate and that keel is very nice.

I’d post current pics of mine but it would be embarrassing.

Erik Rudels

Same here, no pictures in a while. But hopefully she’ll look better and more ours in a few years.

Charles Steadman

Mads on Sail Life has a Warrior 38. You might be confusing him with Brick House, another YT channel on a Valiant 40. Both of these channels show how if you pick that sort of old boat you need to be ready for your budget split to be $1 for the boat and $99,999 for the refit.

Terence Thatcher

I look forward to the series, since I have already selected and upgraded an older tupperware boat (Morgan 382) for voyaging (although not for high latitude, Roaring 40s kind of voyaging). More accurately she was selected for inland cruising and the voyaging came later, so she is not perfect. The limit on high latitude cruising seems to be applicable to your examples, too. At least I would not take a Beneteau or even a S&S Tartan 37 around Cape Horn. Maybe a well found Valiant or Fast Passage 39 (they have done it), but the old ones are getting pretty long in the tooth. I would suggest that fuel and water tank capacity as well as general stowage room are important for most cruisers. So, I assume you will address adding tankage. I added fuel capacity and a water maker to my vessel along with various improvements in stowage options. Most production boats have too many bunks. You have to choose which to sacrifice to get reasonable stowage. No reply needed.

Matthew Clark

Hi, very timely series as we are right now shopping in this exact category with the goal of under 60k now for coastal voyaging / learning, and then making the remainder of the upgrades as we go over the next couple years of preparing for longer voyages. The Morgan 382/383 keeps making it’s way up our list after initially finding it on John Neal’s Mahina Expeditions list of off shore cruising boats to consider. Terence, or anyone else with direct experience here, would you still select the Morgan? Why or why not? Any thing to watch out for that’s not covered in the Practical Sailor and other reviews? Any issues with the odd keel holding tank or anything else in particular? Thanks, Matt

Terence Thatcher

Matt, you can learn a great deal at Morgan38.org. Lots of posts on pros/cons and upgrades. My experience, however, is that most owners are a little too connected to their boats to be objective about their deficiencies.

Matthew Clark

Thanks, I’ll spend some time there researching.

Richard Elder

Hi Terence,
So how is your hull to deck joint doing? The only Morgan 382 I’ve been around leaked all the way from the bow to the chainplate area while sitting at the dock in a hard rain. We were contracted to build a custom interior in it, but the owner ended up spending his entire budget repairing the hull joint and she still leaked. I’d trial her a few times in the worst conditions I could find before setting off into the sunset.

Terence Thatcher

Richard: Fair question and reasonable concern. Here is what I have learned in decades around boats, including fiberglass craft. Low to mid-price production boats of the same type (i.e., sister ships) vary widely in their construction quality. (And I have even heard some disturbing tales about certain Hinkleys.) Maybe it is which workers were assigned the hull, maybe it is variable supervision, maybe it is whether the boat was finished on a Friday or a Monday. For instance, I have great bulkhead bonds to the hull; nothing has ever moved or separated-and we have been in rough stuff for days at a time. Others have seen those bonds separate and have had to do repairs. My Morgan 382 hull-deck joint does not leak, but others do, evidently. Mine is bedded in butyl and screwed down the whole length of the boat. Not perfect. But it is also through bolted from the shroud chainplates to the aft end of the cockpit, along where the outboard genoa track sits on the bulwark and cap rail. The hull and deck are also through-bolted on both sides of the bow in the way of the headstay chainplate, dual anchor rollers and the forward cleats and chocks and in the stern in way of cleats, drogue chainplates, and pushpit stanchions. What does this long-winded reply mean? Other than proving my verbosity and my familiarity with my vessel, it means only what John and Colin have said elsewhere on AAC and what I expect they will discuss further in this thread: never buy a used boat without investigating its history and without a THOROUGH survey by someone who is willing to take things apart and contort him or herself into tiny spaces. Had I $100K, rather than $60K, 22 years ago when I bought my Morgan, I would probably have bought something else. But we all make and live with our compromises. Finally, Colin and John did not intend this to be a discussion of WHICH good old boat to buy, but how to think about acquiring and upgrading voyaging vessels on a budget. So I myself have broken John’s rules on relevance. I apologize. But even those who are clear-eyed about the limitations of our vessels can reveal a unreasonable tendency to take umbrage when someone questions our choices or suggests deficiencies in our own vessel. I don’t love my Morgan 382 the way I loved the traditional wooden ketch I grew up on, but she is still my baby.

John Harries

Hi Terence,

Great comment with a lot of good points. As you say, even a very expensive boat like a Hinkley can have big time issues, In fact I know of a Southwester Competition 42 that required $100K to fix hull core problems.

Also a good point, in this comment and your last, about the biases that we all have about our own boats that, in many cases, make interviewing owners or reading their forums an unreliable way to determine quality—both are still useful but must be filtered with a healthy dose of scepticism.

Bottom line, as you say, only an exhaustive survey will do.

Richard Elder

Hi Mathew:
John Neal has had an amazing career introducing people to ocean voyaging, but I don’t think he has ever owned any boat except a Halberg Rassy. I’d temper his advice with that from somebody like Steve D’Antonio who has seen the underside of every nasty problem!

Andrew Craig-Bennett

I would like to suggest that you might include a couple of smaller boats – I suggest:

Vancouver 27/28
Vertue II
Twister
Rustler 31
Pearson Triton maybe?

John Harries

Hi Andrew,

For the purposes of this series it won’t matter what size the boat is, at least within reason.

Richard Elder

Hi Andrew
It takes a very special couple to remain coupled after crossing an ocean in a Vertue or any boat that small!

Andrew Craig-Bennett

True, Richard, but running out of money often has a similar effect…

Philippe Candelier

I purchased a Dufour 39 Frers (1995 edition, one of the last produced) 6 years ago, and partially refited the boat over the last 5 years. This is interesting because all in all, I am now a bit above 110k$ total and still need a few more item to be checked on the todo list for an ocean crossing, but the boat is doing great and we can enjoy coastal cruising and a few multi-days offshore passages in confidence. This year we are spending the winter cruising the Bahamas after sailing down the East cost from upstate New York. I can share more information and numbers should you want those.

John Harries

Hi Philippe,

Thanks for sharing that. And yes, I would be very interested in your numbers.