It’s now some 10 years since I first started writing the articles that eventually became our Heavy Weather Tactics Online Book.
Over that 10 years, readers have left hundreds of comments and questions on the book’s 20 chapters, and I’m sure there will be more in the future.
Those comments have taught Phyllis and me a lot, resulting in numerous chapter edits and updates, and have inspired me to write new chapters to expand on and explore the points raised.
(By the way, I just love the way this process has evolved and, further, I would not still be working as hard at this as I do without your participation. Thank you to all who take the time to comment.)
Several questions have repeatedly surfaced within those hundreds of comments. So I have pulled those together in this chapter and added my thoughts.
Guess who’s fabricating SS chainplates for the bridle of a JSD? All credit to this site for collating this material and making such good arguments on behalf of safety at sea.
Hi Marc,
Good on you.
John, thank you for this. I am in the process of purchasing a series drogue to replace my current arrangements .
I am not intending to ask a daft question here but could (and would one ever) fit a series Drogue with the boat facing forward, basically as a sea anchor. Looking at the diagrams and the science I am not clear why this would not work or should not be tried.
Thanks, Martin
Hi Martin,
No, you definitely don’t want to deploy from the bow. Jordan explains why in his paper, but the short answer is that the centre of pressure is forward of the centre of lateral resistance on most all boats and therefore they lie much more quietly by the stern. Also, the separation of the bridle attachment at each corner of the stern helps to pull the boat straight in a large breaking wave.
By the way, the first reason is why boats hunt when anchored. In fact Jordan makes a valid argument that, at least in theory, it might be better to anchor by the stern in heavy weather. More here: https://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/D_14.htm (The reality of windlass and cleat positioning on most boats makes stern anchoring impractical.)
Thank you – a very helpful and very interesting reply.
Another thing to consider here is that with the drogue deployed from the bow, water will be flowing over the rudder in the “wrong” direction.
Regarding anchoring by the transom:
I’m surprised Jordan did not collect any data. Early this spring I spent a worthwhile day testing different yaw-reduction methods, looking at both yaw angle and load cell readings. Methods included all the standard methods, such as bridles, removing dinghies from the bow, and hammerlock moorings. If the yaw angle was more than about 35 degrees, the anchor load doubled, because the wind is now seeing the side of the boat. Obvious. Then there are all of the anchor loosening effects of yawing, which are harder to quantify and very anchor- and bottom-dependent.
But I did not anchor by the stern. One reason is that my current boat has an open transom, so I just didn’t consider it. It also lies quietly with a bridle. However, I do wonder what the difference in wind and wave force is by the transom. I’m sure it is less than the effect of yawing, but I felt he was quick to dismiss both that and the other downsides. For one, the crew is even less likely to go outside to check on things, since opening the companionway would be a mess and possibly a disaster. You’d probably move the mattresses and go out the V-berth hatch. Even closed, water will blow in past the companionway door or boards.
The upward pitch against the rode would be different, possibly stronger, since the aft sections are broader. This will increase the wave impact portion of hobby horsing. But pitching might be less. This can be a major factor in shallow harbors. But think about motoring in reverse into steep chop.
Interesting. Sounds like measurements are needed. I’m quite sure yawing will stop. But I wouldn’t want to guess on the other factors.
I do think many boat owners have not put enough emphasis on stopping yawing. They believe chain will do that, but chain ONLY helps when it is still on the bottom, which it is not in any meaningful way when the wind pipes up. Most don’t anchor often enough in strong weather to observe the boat at >50 knots. Can’t say I blame them….
Hi Drew,
I think the Jordan’s thoughts on anchoring by the stern were pretty secondary to his work on the JDS, and by the time he wrote that I’m pretty sure he was near the end of his life. Probably the reasons he did not take it further. And anyway, as you say, and I said in my original comment, there are practicality issues that preclude it being a common solution.
As to anti yaw, I agree, the chain does pretty much nothing, ditto a bridle on a mono hull. The only two options I know of that actually do anything useful to reduce the problem are a small riding sail on on the backstay (or a reefed mizzen) and Colin’s drogue on the anchor trick. Both work because they actually deal with the core problem. The first moves the centre of effort aft and the second the centre of lateral resistance forward. Here’s Colin’s trick: https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/02/23/stop-swinging-around/
I’m glad you mentioned the old and out-of-fashion riding sail, John. It seems like a simple plan to test on a moderate day in a half-empty anchorage with lots of space to “solve” mistakes. Say you have 20 knots at anchor, but the wind is veering. Time the distance from side-to-side veer (or have an anchor watch app do it for you). Put up a riding sail, or, lacking one, a storm jib sheeted flat. See if you reduce your speed and distance in veering. That will provide evidence and guidance, although I’m also keen on Colin’s drogue idea because it’s very economical compared to any other idea.
Hi Marc,
I loved when I sailed a yawl and the mizzen would be up for almost the whole of my holiday weather-cocking me into the wind.
Not sure riding sails are actually pertinent in a surviving storm level conditions article, but, with respect to riding sails, it sounds like you are talking about a single-surface riding sail, like using one’s very flat storm staysail. It is my take, with some anecdotal evidence, that a wedge- shaped riding sail is far more effective: “clews” to cleats on the quarter, hoist up the backstay on a halyard and tack to somewhere up forward, very stiff leading edge forward: all very taught.
In this way the wind catches the wedged-out sail surface far sooner than happens with a single flat riding surface sail and keeps the sashaying back and forth to a minimum.
I believe you can find fuller descriptions on the internet.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Ps. My casual observation of boats in anchorages with single surface riding sails was that they did not seem particularly effective, but clearly, I did not observe their action without the sail.
Hi Marc,
I loved when I sailed a yawl and the mizzen would be up for almost the whole of my holiday weather-cocking me into the wind. I do not have personal experience with riding sails but have watched friends play with various methods.
Not sure riding sails are actually pertinent in a surviving-storm-level-conditions article, but, with respect to riding sails, it sounds like you are talking about a single-surface riding sail, like using one’s very flat storm staysail. It is my take, with some anecdotal evidence, that a wedge- shaped riding sail is far more effective: “clews” to cleats on the quarter, hoist up the backstay on a halyard and tack to somewhere up forward, very stiff leading edge forward: all very taught.
In this way the wind catches the wedged-out sail surface far sooner than happens with a single flat riding surface sail and keeps the sashaying back and forth to a minimum.
My casual observation of boats in anchorages with single surface riding sails was that they did not seem particularly effective, but clearly, I did not observe their action without the sail. In moderate conditions that most of us would use a riding sail, I would take the single surface riding sail “tack” off centerline to the rail or genoa track (something strong enough). In this way, you would ensure the boat would not be “tacking” back and forth. This may add more windage, but it may not depending on how much surface area of the boat is exposed when it yaws back and forth.
I believe you can find fuller descriptions of the wedge riding sail on the internet.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Hi Dick,
I wasn’t really talking of any specific sail configuration, but rather just using them as a tool to help explain why boats lie more quietly by the stern. That said, I agree that the wedge shaped sail idea sounds good, although I have never tried it.
Hi Marc,
Sure, you could go through all that, but I’m not sure I would bother. The engineering that makes a riding sail work is pretty basic and solid. I think the only reason we don’t see more of them is that most boats have a lot of stuff aft (aerials, solar, panels, etc) that makes it difficult to set them. The other problem is that they can be a bit noisy.
I’m not sure I would bother, either, having learned of the rode drogue method. But I have a storm jib I could use to hand, if I ever get curious. And Dick, yes, I’m aware of the wedge type, but I’d have to make one or have one made to try that, whereas I could simply experiment with a reverse hoisted storm jib. I don’t actually have much evidence that our full-keeler would veer much at anchor…I haven’t anchored on her in the right kind of wrong kind of wind.
Might vessels with a canoe stern (such as on a 34′ Pacific Seacraft), in part designed to take waves better, obviate the need for the split bridle? It would be a challenge to attach, and on that boat there is a very robust eye cast into the backstay fitting, heavily bolted down the stern centerline, ideal for a single line to the series drogue.
Hi David,
I can certainly see the attraction of that idea, however I would not recommend it because stern configuration does not alter the benefit of getting the bridles well apart. Rather, what happens is that any boat will tend to yaw in the troughs of large waves, where the wind can be much less, and therefore when the JSD loads up, as the next wave approaches having, the bridles spread well apart pulls the boat straight in relation to the wave face more quickly. (Jordan specifically explains this in his paper.)
So even on a double ender the bridles should be spread as much as possible. See this account: https://www.morganscloud.com/2013/06/01/real-world-jordan-series-drogue-deployment/
By the way, although I agree that a stern like that on a Pacific Seacraft is much safer at sea than the huge wide sterns we see today, there is nothing intrinsically more seaworthy about a double ended boat, in my opinion. In fact the opposite can in some cases be true because it’s difficult to get enough buoyancy in to a really pointy stern. The use of the canoe stern by designers like Crealock and Perry was, I think, more about sticking with the fashion of the time, inspired by the Westsails, than any intrinsic superiority. The canoe stern also allowed both designers to make both ends pointy, but still get more buoyancy in, and have a decent cockpit, always a problem with a true double ender.
Hi John,
I was a bit surprised to see how the bridle legs are attached to the drogue in the first pictures of the dyneema drogue from Ace and a bit of further looking seemed to suggest that this is the common way. I would have thought that instead of being individually cow-hitched onto the loop, they would be done together so that the cow-hitch would be inverted. Do you have any thoughts on which way you would recommend?
I am skeptical of relying on a boat skidding sideways as an ultimate survival tool. There is no doubt that this ability helps and is preferable over not having it but at some point, it can be overwhelmed and I would think that a very fast capsize would result as there is a lot of energy stored that gets dissipated once the boat digs in, for example by the deck edge. For almost 15 years, I did a lot of whitewater kayaking so spent a lot of time side-surfing and it is incredible how quickly you can go from okay to over (what kayakers call getting window-shaded) and it does not take a big wave, you simply need a large sideways speed differential and something to trip on. That being said, I would think that a boat that can skid coupled with a JSD would do very well in the dreaded cross-sea situation. Note, I have never used a JSD and I have no offshore experience on modern (not like Finisterre) offshore centerboard boats so this is only educated guessing.
Eric
Re. Cow hitching. Interesting question. In fact, I think the cyclone is wrong and I made do the testing to prove it. First, the load is transferred to the eye in a smaller area. More importantly, the second eye in the stack is going to move, resulting in chafe, which is 98% of the risk. This is why we cow hitch instead of use shackles; it was shown to eliminate movement and was safer than thimbles, which can shift under high load. This stacked cow hitch allows movement.
Re. Sliding. I think all of my white water capsizes have been due to catching an edge. It’s fast. Catching the edge of the deck or a chime seems like a real occurrence.
Hi Eric,
Hum, on the cow hitch, initially I sided with the way the Cyclone mooring bridle is done, but then I read Drew’s comment and now I simply don’t know. I guess the good news is that I have never heard of any chafe problems with cow hitches at this point on a JSD, so maybe they pull so tight that there is little movement with either method?
I will be interested in hearing the results of Drew’s testing.
On the skidding issue, I totally agree with you and Drew. All may be good until the toe rail digs in, and then bad stuff will happen very quickly. If memory serves, Steve Dashew has some very interesting thoughts on skidding in his heavy weather book. He also feels strongly that boats with higher freeboard and some flare from the waterline are intrinsically safer because they will skid better on the larger freeboard surface. Something an owner of a Boreal, with her fairly low freeboard, will want to think about.
Hi John and Drew,
Thanks for the thoughts on the cow hitching. Thinking about it a bit more this morning after reading both your comments, I am back to thinking that the cyclone pendant way seems superior to me. I agree with you guys that the key is trying prevent movement. If you do 2 separate cow hitches, when the loads on the bridle legs are equal, the loop in the end of the JSD line will want to be a triangle. When the boat yaws and the load goes mostly onto 1 leg, the loop will want to turn into 2 parallel lines which will cause the bridle leg to want to slide to the center. The question is whether there is enough friction that nothing moves. Also, there is an interesting question about loading of the JSD line splice. Drew, it would be great if you could test this and come to a conclusion. Thankfully it seems that whatever people have been doing works.
For what its worth, both our mooring pendants and our snubber consist of a dyneema spliced loop cow hitched into a spliced loop in nylon just like the cyclone pendants. However, we only have a single piece of dyneema which is likely an important difference. We have never seen any movement or chafe but they are also really easy to get apart again too which is nice. About half the boats in our mooring field run the cyclone pendants per the picture and I am unaware of any issues from it, the issues seem to be from people who either don’t have the cyclone pendants or get ball wraps due to not lashing pendants and no floats.
Eric
Hi Eric,
Your explanation of the loads on the cow hitchs certainly makes sense. Like you, I will look forward to the results of Drew’s testing.