The Offshore Voyaging Reference Site

Windvane Or Autopilot?

Sitting in the Canaries watching all the yachts turn up to make the transatlantic crossing has been instructive.

I’ve spent some of my time counting the number of boats equipped with what used to be the long distance boat’s badge of honour—a wind vane. And talking to the owners has been instructive, too.

Pèlerin is the first boat in over twenty-five years that I have owned that has an autopilot. It’s the latest version of the famed Robertson family, the Simrad AP28. When it deigns to work, it’s a great piece of equipment.

But it has been far from reliable (numerous global re-sets, one new control head, leaking ram) in a few hundred hours of relatively light use, which is not impressive. It’s also noisy below, to the extent that you’d need to be deaf to sleep in the aft cabin when it’s working, and it is incredibly power hungry when conditions are anything less than calm.

On the positive side it is easy to use, and steers a very good course, so it’s no surprise that until recently it got used far more often than our other self-steering device, a Windpilot Pacific windvane.

But that’s been changing, as Lou and I have worked hard to become more adept with the vane, devoting the time to learning its eccentricities, and learning how to trim the boat to keep it happy. On our latest passage, the autopilot was in charge for less than 10% of the time, as the vane steered us quietly, safely and economically to our destination.

Which To Choose?

In an ideal world any offshore boat should have both an electronic autopilot and a windvane, which is why we went down that route. But these are big-ticket items, so if your budget is tight you’re looking at major expense. To replace our autopilot would be around $7000.00, before upgrades to the electrical system to feed it, and the Windpilot less.

If you had to choose, which would it be?

I’m going to stick my neck out and say the windvane, a position that once upon a time wouldn’t have seemed in any way unusual, but in today’s gizmo driven world might be viewed as eccentric.

And whilst I’d accept that our less than perfect experience with the AP28 has certainly had a bearing on this, I still think I’d back the vane. But if last year’s Yachting World survey on the ARC contestants is anything to go by, I’d be in the minority, as whilst 182 boats had an autopilot, only 32 had a vane.

It’s not as if windvane development has exactly stalled, new developments and improvements to the existing gears keep coming through, and there continue to be new gears on the market.

At least three of the manufacturers offer an emergency rudder installation (Monitor, Windpilot and Hydrovane) that is either part of the existing gear, or an add-on. There are scaled up versions (Windpilot Pacific Plus, Sailomat) and scaled down versions (Windpilot Pacific Light, Mr Vee) for smaller boats—the choice is endless.

Constant Improvement

Vane gears have also improved dramatically in terms of response over the years, so the old idea that they were only suitable for longer keeled boats is no longer true, although they still make a very good match with directionally stable boats.

The dramatic changes in apparent wind angle as very fast ocean racing boats accelerate means that they won’t handle any craft of that nature, but that’s about it—the right gear will work fine with most fin keelers, even at the performance end of the scale.

Some argue that an autopilot might have an edge in terms of miles run per day as you can push the boat harder, but equally this well argued trial by Southern Ocean veteran Tony Gooch suggests otherwise.

What’s Not To Like?

I think that there are a number of obstacles. The first is that they are unsightly (and vulnerable) on the stern of many boats—owners just don’t like the look of them.

The second is that they don’t perform well in coastal waters, where the wind is more fluky, and shifts far more, meaning that you can spend too much of your time trimming the vane.

The third, and the major stumbling block in my view, is that they do demand real input from the crew—you have to learn how to set them up in all weather conditions and for all points of sailing. And this requires that you spend time perfecting your sail trim, as the vane will not fight an unbalanced boat. So many owners of vanes have remarked to me that they aren’t over impressed with their gear, but in the next breath have admitted that this might well be because they haven’t played around with it enough to really get to know it.

For me the clinchers are that a windvane works better the harder it blows, the complete opposite of an autopilot, and it fulfills our desire to have independence from electricity in the event of a disaster.

So in this article in the series I’m look at some of the ways to get the best out of a windvane, with a list of dos and don’ts that might just convince you (if you don’t already have one) to consider one of these great, silent, tireless devices that consume no power and never ask for a pay rise!

Further Reading

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Dick Stevenson

Colin, There are apples and there are oranges. Our autopilot is an Alpha 3000. It has none of the modern bells & whistles, but it has steered Alchemy for 15 years and 40,000 miles (we are rarely at the helm) without a hiccup. It sips power, is soundless and very powerful. It has steered as in 50+ knot winds with commensurate following sees and upwind in 40+. We have a Monitor wind vane as well which, sad to say, we are beginning to think of as lightening protection (because steering constantly when you are just 2 is in the last resort category) rather than a primary steering device. That said for years now we have been mostly near land (the Med and coastally up to England) and not doing really long passages. Especially near land and on day hops the fussiness of a vane means we would not consider the Monitor. I hate reporting the above, but to some extent it feels like the encroachment of roller furling headsails over good old reliable hanks way back when. The ease, reliability, responsiveness, and power of our Alpha has won the day on our vessel. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
Ps. We have had times where we thought to get rid of the Monitor, but having back-up steering when you live aboard is too important. D.

Colin

Hi Dick

It sounds like you’ve got the best autopilot of them all – which I’ll bet is also the simplest. The companies that make them seem to suffer from the same attitude of the purveyors of all electronic devices – load it up with trickery. As I’ve said before I’d give anything for an autopilot that was (a) simple, (b) powerful and (c) reliable – and that’s it. Anything else I could live without. Our pilot can (according to the book of words) do just about anything, and I can’t for the life of me see the point of that.

I’d agree with you that vanes aren’t the greatest asset for coastal work, but offshore I think they’re great. And I think that until someone produces an autopilot that can fulfil my above criteria, we’ll focus on the vane as our No 1 third crew member.

Best wishes

Colin

Carolyn Shearlock

We had both a hydraulic autopilot (big, beefy unit favored by the New Zealand fishing fleet) and a Monitor on Que Tal. We used the autopilot whenever we motored, but the Monitor whenever under sail. This may be largely due to both Dave’s and my background in racing small boat — we both LIKE fiddling with the sails!

If we were starting from scratch — and assuming a boat that a windvane would fit/work on — we’d probably go with a Monitor again, but hook up a tiller pilot to it. Much cheaper than a full autopilot, works with the Monitor system, AND takes a lot less power. I’ve talked to a few boats that use the system and really like it, but I’ve never done so myself.

Colin

Hi Carolyn

And I’ll bet the autopilot that the fishermen like (always a good sign) is simple as well as robust.

Like your selves we like the vane, and don’t mind the fiddling with it to get the best out of it. And I’m of the opinion that the course it steers is more ‘natural’ than with the pilot, in that the boat seems more in harmony with the wave train, and the wheel moves far less than the pilot – just like a good racing helm would.

Best wishes

Colin

Dick Stevenson

Carolyn, A number of friends have a tiller pilot connected to their vane with a variety of home built adaptations. All have been pleased, but I think there has not been heavy usage as at least on a few boats it was a back up to the below decks autopilot and not the only electric autopilot. I remember some concern for bearings etc with the prop wash always agitating the vane’s oar just astern. Dick

Dick Stevenson

Colin, And you will have a smoother ride. One thing I have observed, in my admittedly quite unscientific manner, is that the wind vane responds to all the elements: not just wind but wave action, boat attitude etc. so you end up with a smoother ride. With the electric autopilot, there is only the compass feedback so, in certain conditions, it tends to slam into waves when a vane feel the wave through the oar and smooth things out. I would be interested in whether others have observed this as well. Dick

Colin

Hi Dick

So it’s not just me! there’s no doubt in my mind that the course steered is more ‘organic with the vane than the pilot, which seems to want to do battle with the boat’s wishes. I’d probably never noticed this before as I’ve always used vanes, but it’s really marked (at least) on our Ovni.

Let’s hear from anyone else out there who has experienced the same syndrome.

Best wishes

Colin

Lane Finley

We have always sailed with both autopilot and windvane on our boat, an Annapolis 44. To me they are two distinctly different tools, one we use for sailing and one we use for motoring. The only exception is that when I am single-handing in coastal waters I almost always use the autopilot as coastal winds can change quickly and that can send the boat offcourse when you least want it too if you are using the windvane. Perhaps most modern sailors have become accustomed to push-button technology and don’t have the patience to learn how to “play” with the windvane and their boat’s sail trim. Its a shame really, because there is something special about watching your windvane effortlessly steer you boat through the ocean without drawing a single amp from your batteries. I agree that the windvane seems to correct the course in a more efficient way. Also, the boat will excelerate quicker after being slowed by headseas. This is because the windvane is working on apparent wind and not the compass course. We have an old Flemming windvane and a WH Autopilot. Both have been reliable for over twenty-two years and many miles.
Cheers
Lane

Colin

Hi Lane

The second mention of WH autopilots, both favourable. I think there may well be a case for going down the commercial route for autopilots for long distance boats – any other views either for or against would be welcomed!

Kind regards

Colin

Victor Raymond

Colin,
Of course another great article, thank you. Several points: I have the Simrad AP22 and I was pleased and surprised to find that it worked flawlessly. The only time it went offline (standby) was when we were slammed by 35kt squall at night. It was more than the autopilot could handle but was the right response With no AP input the boat naturally took the path of least resitance with respect to the wind and this allowed me time to reset the sail trim for the new wind speed and direction. Had I been using the Aries wind vane I suspect it would have commanded a major direction change although without the corresponding sail trim that strategy would be short lived.
I look forward to your second part as sadly I have not been successful in getting it to sail the boat as I would expect I am convinced it is operator error but have not have a long enough passage to try every adjustment.
Victor
S/V Rajah Laut
Meta Dalu 47

Jean-François Eeman

Hi Victor,

I hope you are fine !

If I’m correct Rajah Laut is a Michel Joubert plan with a hung rudder. The rudder is not compensated…

The boat works well under autopilot most probably because the ram is powerfull (I don’t know your model of pilot)…
But I’m afraid that whatever the windvane model you’ll try, it will be really hard to make it work on such a configuration…

I sincerely hope you’ll find the way to tell my I’m wrong !!! But my previous boat was a Joubert plan built according to the same ideas (hung rudder, not compensated…)
I had a Fleming wind vane and as soon as the wind started blowing, it did not work unless we completely underpowered the boat…
I’m my eyes it was not because of the windvane but because the boat was really hard to balance, not having to use a lot of power to steer…

Please tell me if I’m compeltely wrong. I’ll be happy to amend.

Victor Raymond

Dear Jean-François
Yes, thank you. Doing well. Hope you are doing well also.

The Rajah Laut is the Joubert design and the rudder is transom hung and very large. It is retractable like the keel except vertical not swinging. The boat like David Nutt’s Danza has Whitlock steering so requires the special Simrad/Whitlock drive. It seems very strong and the wheel only moves slightly back and forth to keep the boat going straight even in 6 foot swells.

The previous owner said he used the Aries almost exclusively unless motoring, even downwind with twin headsails. I am quite convinced it would sail better than with the autopilot would with a quartering swell.

I am not sure if the rudder is compensated or not since I am unfamiliar with the term. It is not a barn door and is very effective when motoring since the prop wash flows right over it. In spite of being a swinging keel boat it can turn very sharply but reverse is always interesting.

I still wish I could have a Boreal but that does not seem likely at the moment. Take care and happy holidays.

Colin

Hi Victor and Jean-Francois

I think what Jean-Francois means is that rudder is not ‘balanced’, an Anglo technical term.

There’s no doubt that some boats are more difficult to match with vanes (and autopilots for that matter) than others, and it’s a matter of trial and error to get them to perform well.

But if the previous owner sailed with the Aries all the time, perhaps a good place to start is to ask him how, if you haven’t already – he may have some really useful pointers.

Kindest regards

Colin

Victor Raymond

Dear Colin and Jean François
You are both correct. The rudder is not balanced as the gudgeon and pindle are forward of the rudder. However the rudder is a shapped foil with several fences to control ventilation. The boat steers fine without deployment of the retractable extension and one really only needs the extension when heeled excessively. Of course this is something avoided as a matter of course for flat bottomed boats.
With much appreciation
Victor

Jean-François Eeman

Dear Colin,
Dear Vicor,

Indeed Balanced !

Victor : I had – I believe – exactly the same kind of rudder. When we designed the new ones, we did simulations and we think the fence at the bottom of the rudder is usefull but we have doubts about the utlity of the ones which are placed at the rear edge of the rudder…
But on our boat we could use them as steps to go and swim. So not useless…

Let us know if you succeed making her work with a windpilot. The actual owner of Juan sa Bulan 1 is very keen to know 🙂

JF