Our position here at Attainable Adventure Cruising Ltd has been, and continues to be, that the Rocna and SPADE are both great anchors that have made previous generation anchors like the CQR and Bruce obsolete. But that leaves the question: What are the relative strengths and weaknesses of the two anchors? To try to at least partially answer that, we are going to conduct an informal poll through the comments to this post.
Ground Rules
- Before a war starts, let me make clear that we are not trying to arrive at a determination of which is the better anchor. The aim of this post is to gain real-world, first hand anecdotal evidence from experienced users of both anchors that will help others select the right one for different conditions.
- For the purposes of this post, we have no interest in data gained from anchor testing by manufacturers or magazines, no matter how impartial or well executed. There is no question that tests have their place, but they have all been argued to death on the forums and we have no desire to repeat that here. First hand, real-world knowledge only please. (Yes, I know I got to speculate, see below, but it’s my site!)
- To keep things simple, we are only discussing the Rocna and SPADE here. I know there are other excellent modern designs like the Manson, but please don’t bring them into the conversation.
- Please keep it civil. No personal attacks and no sarcasm.
Let’s kick things off with our thoughts, which are based on a combination of 50 years of anchoring experience (I started young), 15 years experience with SPADE anchors, interviews with experienced users of both Rocna and SPADE anchors, and a large dollop of guess work:
Rocna Strengths
- We can attest from our own experience that the SPADE is not great at setting in difficult bottom types on a scope of less than about 4:1 in relatively shallow water. (Interestingly, at least with a chain rode, the SPADE has no problem setting on 3:1 scope, even in rocky and weedy bottoms, once the water gets deeper than 75-feet.) On the other hand, everyone we have talked to with a Rocna says that it will reliably set on 3:1 scope in just about any bottom type and any water depth.
- The Rocna is made in one piece and so there is no bolt holding it together to worry about, as there is on the SPADE. Having said that, despite the well publicized loss of a boat off New Zealand some years ago, we don’t believe that there is any real danger of a SPADE coming apart in use since the bolt is not load-bearing and is secured with a split-pinned aircraft nut.
- We have also had problems setting the SPADE in very thin mud, like that in some parts of the Chesapeake Bay, particularly on short scope. Our guess is that the Rocna would do better here due to its larger projected area for a given weight.
- The Rocna is made entirely of steel and so should be easy to re-galvanize, whereas the SPADE has lead poured into the tip that will have to be melted out before re-galvanizing and then replaced after—not a big deal, but still a bit of a pain.
SPADE Strengths
- Easier to stow than the Rocna since it is smaller for a given weight and has no roll bar. Also, it can be disassembled into two pieces to stow below.
- We have never had or heard of a SPADE failing to reset after a wind shift. We have heard of Rocnas failing to do so, but this information is purely anecdotal and, at this point, based on a vanishingly small sample.
- The SPADE has always worked very well for us in hard bottoms full of rocks. We would guess that it might have the edge on a Rocna here since it might be less likely to be fouled as it digs in by a large rock or other debris than a Rocna with its roll bar.
- As far as I know, there have never been any questions about the steel SPADE’s strength and I can personally attest that we have abused ours horribly without any damage, right up to using the full power of our big engine, with the rode up-and-down, to tear it out of snags. On the other hand there has been a well published fuss about sub-specification steel used in some Rocnas. Having said that, we have never heard of a Rocna actually failing and apparently the steel issue has been fixed.
- We have first hand experience of using the SPADE in very thick kelp with great success. It just burrows through to the bottom, pretty much no matter how thick the weed. Our guess would be that the Rocna would have more trouble here, due to its larger fluke area and roll bar—just more to get hung up or fouled in the weed.
- The SPADE is available in aluminum, which, while we don’t recommend that material for a best bower (main anchor), is a great solution for a secondary anchor since a comparatively large aluminum SPADE can be easily handled and even set from a dinghy. The Rocna is only available in steel, galvanized or stainless.
Ultimate Holding, or Not
In reading the above you will notice that we have not mentioned ultimate holding load, that number beloved of anchor testers. This is no accident. We believe that either anchor, properly sized and set, will hold through just about any storm.
In our own case we have repeatedly rode out full storms and, on a couple of memorable occasions, had our SPADE hold through hurricane force winds with multi-directional gusting—once on just 3:1 scope. So, frankly, we think that endless discussions of the ultimate holding numbers of the two anchors, derived from tests, are a waste of time—let’s not go there.
Over to You
Please leave a comment with your first hand, real-world experience with a Rocna or SPADE anchor that refutes or confirms the strengths listed above. Feel free to list other strengths and weaknesses of the anchors that I have not thought of, as long as you can back it up with experience.
Update on Sunday Evening
Thanks to all for the great comments.
As I expected, a lot of comments from really experienced voyagers and pretty much no negative ones. This should go a long way to dispelling some of the myths that become “facts” simply because they are repeated often on forums.
If you are new to this post, please don’t be discouraged from commenting just because it has already been said, your experience has value too.
My thanks to Daria and Dick who inspired this informal poll with their great comments to this post.
Further Reading
Disclosure
Last year the US distributor for SPADE anchor gave us a brand new one to replace our battered and rusty SPADE, veteran of 15 years. The old one still worked just fine, but it was bleeding rust all over the foredeck. To say thank you, we posted the logo you see in the Voyage Sponsors section to the right.
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{ 76 comments… read them below or add one }
I’m wondering if anchor performance is not more related to weight, chain and scope rather than a particular style. I’d like to hear of experiences and anchor weight to boat displacement ratios.
Thanks,
-jak
Hi Jak,
I can help there. For over a year we had a 66lb SPADE and a 75lb CQR on the bow at all times. The SPADE consistently set and held when the CQR would not. More details here. I could also cite many tests, but if I do, the guy that runs this site, who is a real martinet, will slap my hand, since it breaks the guide lines on the post
.
Dear John,
I have no experience with the Rocna (anecdotal among the live-aboard cruising community is all good as is the Spade’s reputation). I had a CQR for 25 yrs and loved it till we got to the Med where hard bottoms and grass made a new anchor imperative. Spade (galvanized, not aluminum) was the choice as the roll bar on the Rocna precluded easy use on my anchor platform. 3 years in the Med and on our way to England have proven the Spade have no weaknesses that I have discerned. It sets fast and causes my bow to dip impressively upon retrieval and has stayed stuck. Highest winds so far 40-50 knots and no abrupt wind shifts of significant proportions. My observation is that the Spade becomes quite loaded up which is most apparent when retrieved and hanging off the bow (which clarifies dramatically the appropriateness of its name). My niggling question is, with all that debris on the leading edge of the anchor, will it re-set when there is an abrupt wind direction shift accompanied by high winds; a good squall? In the 3 years, I have been fortunate enough to not have really tested the above condition. So, I appreciate your comments about your positive experience with the Spade re-setting. We have not felt like the Spade took inordinate scope to set, but our habits lean towards more scope when possible so we may not notice. My Spade is rusting (and I have heard this about other Spades), primarily at the tip, more than I would expect or like after only 3 years. I am not sure whether this is a cosmetic issue or something that may be a problem down the line.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy, London
Hi Dick,
Yes the rusting on the old SPADEs was a problem. (I forgot that on the post). However, the galvanizing on the new ones seems to be much better.
Having said that, I don’t think you need worry about the rusting affecting performance. Our old SPADE was 15 years old and very battered and rusty after a very hard life of anchoring hundreds of times in the Arctic, but it still set and held fine. That reminds me, I need to add a disclosure to the post–thank you.
I would not worry about the SPADE not resetting in a wind shift. We have had this happen on several occasions without problems. Also, on many occasions, the wind has come from a different direction than that we anticipated when setting the anchor in a calm, and we have never had a problem. We have even tried backing down hard on the anchor when we knew it was set in the other direction, and have not had it move at all.
And finally, some years ago, we experienced the ultimate wind shift reset test: We were anchored right next to the ice cap in East Greenland and had Katabatic gusting up to 50knots from all different direction interspersed with moments of flat calms for over six hours. The boat was was repeatedly slammed back and forth to the limits of the chain across the anchorage, first one way and then the other, no dragging at all.
I will limit my comments to the Spade(s) as I have no experience with the Rocna. I got one of the first ones, a 20 lb. aluminum shortly after the first review in Practical Sailor. That must have been 15-20 years ago. I was using this on a 42′ aluminum work boat with an all chain rode. All went well until it got trapped in Boca Grande Key channel off Key West in a heavy tidal current. It was necessary to use a fair bit of power to free it from the bottom and when it arrived on top the aluminum shank had a 60 degree bend in it. Although it didn’t break off, it did not give me a lot of confidence to continue using it as a bower anchor. I had a machine shop straighten the shank and thereafter used it as a lunch hook without further problems.
Having given up on aluminum, the next Spade was a 35# galvanized steel. It and its twins have provided many nights of restful sleep on subsequent boats including a 44′ power catamaran and a 42′ wooden lobster boat. West Marine was closing out their Spades a number of years ago and I bought two 5# aluminum spades for a 12′ dinghy and 21′ open fishing boat. When taken apart they take up almost no space and for the daytime use they get have proved entirely satisfactory.
In general the Spades have set promptly and securely in nearly all bottoms found in the Florida Keys and coastal Maine. The only exception is a non-compacted mud bottom in Pulpit Harbor on North Haven in Penobscot Bay where they never could get through the thick layer of mud to find a solid bottom.
Hi Tom,
Great comment, thank you. Your last paragraph is really interesting because Pulpit Harbour is one of our favorite harbours in Maine and we have anchored there at least 20 times without problems with out 120lb SPADE. Obviously you are very experienced, so it can’t be technique that is making the difference. So, my guess is that, as I have long suspected, something magic happens when an anchor goes over 100 lb. It also tends to confirm our suspicion that the SPADE, has a slight weakness in very soft bottoms, particularly if they have been churned up by thousands of anchorings.
We used to switch anchors between a Bruce (when north of Charleston) and a Fortress (when south of Charleston). I asked Rocna for a recommendation for an anchor for our boat (53′, 75,000 lb displacement). They said to use the 40 kg model. So I immediately purchased the 55 kg (121 lb) Rocna.
I’m now in my third year with it. We use all 3/8 chain. We anchor about 50% of the time during the 9 months a year we’re on the boat. The anchor is incredible – unlike any I’ve ever used before. I don’t know if it’s because it’s oversized or because of the new design. I honestly don’t care.
We power set the anchor every time we use it. It seems to like 4:1 scope to set. After that we’ll often let out chain for 5:1 in normal conditions, as much as 10:1 in storm conditions, or pull back to 3:1 in crowded conditions where no weather is expected.
The Rocna alone brought anchoring to a new plateau for us. We would often be concerned about holding and monitor everything closely. The anchor always grabs the very first time in all conditions – even soupy Chesapeake mud. We watch other boats in places like Carolina Beach set their anchor 3-5 times before it holds (or they just give up and hope). Ours sets first time and power holds on twin engines pulling back hard.
I carry 4 anchors onboard. Since switching to the Rocna, I’ve only deployed one – the Rocna. There is no way I’m switching, considering anything else, or even debating the subject. It has made that much of a noticeable difference.
Hello all, I can only reinforce Jeffrey’s comments. We too have a 53′er with a lot of windage. We displace less (53,000lbs) and started with a Rocna 40 on 7/16″ all chain looking to replace our SS spare, a 60lb CQR style. I was so impressed with it’s performance I purchased a 55 kg model and reconfigured the anchor handling gear to accommodate it. Gone is our trusty Danforth HT60 and the Suncore. We cannot nest the two Rocnas on the bow simultaneously but do not expect to ever anchor with two anchors again. If necessary the 40 is in the cockpit locker standing ready. We spend part of each winter in the Sea of Abaco. Our 8′ draft usually dictates we anchor in grass which is either thick sod or sand over sod or marl. The Rocna has never failed to set immediately. I banded a reflective strip on the roll bar to help with locating the burried anchor. The setting is so immediate there is no evidence that it is there except for a slight bulge in the bottom and maybe a sliver of galvanized roll bar. The chain disappears into the bottom some distance ahead. The reflective strip works great in the dark. We sometimes have to lift huge chunks of sod and saw it down with a boat hook but I ‘ll trade that inconvenience for a good nights sleep anyway. Bob Tetrault S/V Sea Return enroute to the sod grounds.
Our cutter is 48′ and displaces 38,000 lbs. We always had good luck with the CQR till we got to Alaska and the glacial silt and kelp made for multiple drops like it did in Sardinia’s thick grass. The 88 lb Rocna has been incredible. It has worked in gravel, mud, weed and rocks. Our scope, given the opportunity, is usually at least 4:1, but it has done very well on less. The biggest problem is getting it back.
We needed a 50 fish boat to pull it out in Fermeuse NF after burying so deep in kelp in a 60kt blow in only 20′ of water.
We have used it on both coasts, including BC, Labrador, Newfoundland, and the British Isles. We just bought you Norway guide, so next spring when we leave Scotland, we will test those waters as well.
Thanks for the great blog.
My old boat (Jeanneau SO 45.2) had a Bruce and honestly I never had any problems with it even though it seemed small (35#s) for the size boat (10 ton displacement).
My new boat (22 ton displacement) has 40 kg Rocna and that is due to the fact that the designer of the Rocna, Peter Smith, fitted out this boat and of course insisted that the Rocna be THE anchor aboard. Can’t complain, seems to hold well but I would hate to have to man handle the anchor around. Ouch my back!
I have a 88 pounds Rocna with 350 feet of 3/8 HT chain (32000 pound sailboat) and i have the same good experience as Jim. The more the wind and waves pound the boat, the more the Rocna depth in ! By chance i have strong Lofrans windlass has well.
Thanks to all for the great comments.
As I expected, a lot of comments from really experienced voyagers and pretty much no negative ones. This should go a long way to dispelling some of the myths that become “facts” simply because they are repeated often on forums.
If you are new to this post, please don’t be discouraged from commenting just because it has already been said, your experience has value too.
We were anchored in Stewart Island off the southern coast of New Zealand when a 65 knot blow came through (not unusual in these waters). There were three other boats, two of them were local commercial fishing boats and one was a cruising yacht from the UK. All three of them were hanging on CQR’s and they all dragged during the night. We were taking green water over the bow of our 12 ton boat and as we sailed back and forth on the anchor we were putting our rail under water. Our 25 Rockna held and never budged. I used to carry two anchors on the bow rollers ready to go. Now I just carry the one!
Hi Lane,
Great to hear from you again, and great information. We have had exactly the same experience with carrying two anchors on the bow, and now only needing and wanting one since we changed to our SPADE.
We use a 55 kg Spade on our 53 ft. 28 to. Aluminium boat since 4 years. Before we had a Delta of the same weight, which we still carry as spare. Since we left Halifax to Greenland in 2009 we only anchored and had never a problem. We dig the anchor in and test the holding with a lot of engine power.
The experience is the same as yours John. The Spade sets great in almost any bottom. In thick Kelp it is significantly better than the Delta. In soft mud about the same.
It 100% resets after a wind shift. In very strong winds, if space allows, we always try to use a long chain of up to 10:1. When the drag is so strong that it lifts the chain from the bottom completely, the holding power of the anchor is as higher as the lower the angle of attack at the anchor is, especially in softer mud. (sorry for my rough english)
Hi Mike,
Thanks very much for great comment and good point about angle of attack. Also, good to get more reinforcement of the SPADE’s very good performance in thick kelp, (Michael has spent the last three seasons in Greenland and anchored, I would guess, hundreds of times in very challenging conditions.)
Hi John,
We don’t have experience with the Rocna, but have been very happy with our Spade (A200). It almost always sets on the first try, and has only once taken more than two attempts to set. It has never dragged or broken free during 180 degree wind or current shifts. Here on the west coast and San Francisco Bay, it’s common to have 4+ knots of current under the keel while at anchor, reversing direction in the night. The Spade veers under load without pulling out, and it doesn’t trip even when the rode is repeatedly dragged back over the anchor. That helps us sleep a lot better.
We find that with difficult weedy bottoms we have to give it more time to settle and begin to dig in before we back down hard so it can work it’s way down into the bottom first. Waiting 15 minutes seems to make a big difference if it can’t get through right away. In all other conditions it grabs and holds immediately.
One suggestion regarding the steel vs. aluminum debate: Both the manufacturer and discussions on blogs always seem to debate whether to get steel or aluminum of the same size, which doesn’t make sense to me. Many boats have the option of carrying a much bigger anchor, with greater surface area, for the same weight as steel. For example, Spade’s recommended anchor for our boat would be a steel S120 as a main bower, as Spade says the aluminum version might not be strong enough for regular use. But the choice shouldn’t be seen as between a steel or aluminum Spade of the same size. Why not get a much bigger anchor like the aluminum A200, almost twice the recommended size, but about the same weight (57 vs 55 pounds)? The extra surface area increases holding power in marginal bottoms, and with the massive size it’s probably plenty strong for regular use. We’ve had to use the motor to yank it out of who-knows-what down there a few times and it’s been fine. There will be an occasional penalty in trying to penetrate thick weeds because it’s lighter, but it seems like the big aluminum anchor will still be better overall than a smaller steel version, even in thick weeds.
For larger boats, Spade doesn’t make an aluminum A240 or anything bigger than that to use instead of the S240, but if they made something like an aluminum A300 or A350, that would seem be the best of both worlds in holding power and strength. Hopefully they’ll introduce a larger aluminum version. I like Dashew’s theory that if people don’t laugh out loud when they see your anchor, it’s probably not big enough.
One thing to keep an eye out for on the older aluminum versions is that there was an issue with electrolysis between the aluminum and lead that sometimes caused corrosion problems. It was a rare but real problem. Spade fixed the issue years ago and new models don’t have the problem, but if considering a used aluminum Spade, it’s worth calling the manufacturer and having them check the serial number to see if it’s one of the ones manufactured before they made the fix.
Many thanks for the great site. It’s been extremely helpful to us.
David
s/v Tigress, 50′ cat
Hi David,
Great comment, thanks. Interesting point about trading off weight for size by going to Aluminum, I had not thought of that, make a lot of sense.
Also, I like your point about waiting a bit in difficult bottoms. I suspect that we had been a little less impatient when trying to set in very soft mud, we would have not had the rare (three times) setting problems we have had..
okay, we’re at the smaller end of the spectrum….
No experience w/SPADE, but have a 10kg Rocna on our 26ft. sailboat; it’s been the best piece of gear we’ve added. Gravel, mud, weeds -we’ve always had a fast set, and I don’t think the Rocna’s ever not set on first try. It’s over-sized for our boat, but we’ve always slept soundly… except for the singing shrouds in the 30+ winds that we’ve had for max. overnight anchor winds.
Hi all,
We have a 25kg Rocna on sakari’s bow. Used for two seasons, anchoring about 4 nights a week over May – end of September. Our other anchor is a Fortress that we use as a kedge when anchoring fore and aft – and therefore we are not vulnerable to it failing to reset after a direction change.
Did you know what ROCNA stands for? its…
Really
Outstanding
Consistantly
No
Agrevation…..
For us it has totally ;lived up to its name.
Paul
I’ve had a 15kg Rocna on my 10m cat for the last 8 months around the Iberian Peninsula. My attitude to anchoring (expect the worst) was the result of CQR ownership. As my confidence in the Rocna has increased it’s become the most valued bit of kit aboard: has never failed to set instantly & 1st time, always re-sets in shifts, has never dragged. We weathered a 50kn+ night in October that drove several boats in the anchorage ashore and didn’t move an inch. It took some work to get the thing up the next day though…
Our 39 feet cutter ‘Vlieger’ is equiped with a 20kg S100 steel Spade anchor and we are really very happy with it. We are quite keen on anchoring with care, but having done so, our spade realy gives the feeling that we are going to stick to place where we anchored, no matter what. When anchoring you can feel the Spade anchor setting into the sea bottom. Kelp indeed requires a bit more care.
There is only one big disadvantage with the spade anchor: the galvanization work that is really very poor resulting in rust, rust and rust. We could do with advice on how to take care of that.
Hi Joep,
Yes rust has really been a problem with some of the older SPADE’s. Re-galvanizing is an option that should work, but see my comment above about the importance of getting the right amount of lead back in the tip afterwards.
I read some months ago in a French boating magazine that Spade had brought out a newer cheaper version that didn’t use lead in the tip. I think they called it Seabrake, but I’m too sure now.
Joep,
Yes the rusting has been a problem with some of the older Spade anchors. We are working with several manufacturers of anti-corrosive epoxy paints to see if we can find a suitable one that you then can apply to a anchor to protect it without having to go through the cost of melting out the lead and then re-galvanizing. Please feel free to contact me for more information about this process.
We’ve been using a Rocna with great results since 2006, first a 25kg (on our old boat) and now a 33kg. Neither has ever dragged even in really strong winds with associated steep chop. I can count the number of times we’ve had to have a second go at getting either to hold on the fingers of one hand, in a wide variety of substrates, including soft mud and weed, which would defeat just about any other anchor.
The one thing that I don’t much like (although I accept it’s there for a reason!) is the rollbar – it makes them a pain to stow offshore, gets in the way of our bowsprit – the sprit has to go through it, meaning that it has to be mounted and removed if we want to use it or anchor, and on two occasions we’ve fouled stuff with it, the last time a big branch, which made the windlass struggle.
But the positives with the Rocna and Spade so far outweigh the weaknesses that this is really small stuff. Their sheer versatility and holding power makes them unbeatable in my view.
Best wishes
Colin
Hi Colin,
I have wondered about the roll bar so it is good to have the benefit of your experience on that one.
Once again, thanks to everyone who has shared their valuable real-world (the best kind) experience. We are now approaching a thousand readers for this post, which makes it a pretty significant sample and good data for all of us.
Great posting here, a great job, John.
John & Lane, in this post you 2 speak of the most intense conditions at anchor.
John – you in 50 kn katabatics, the wind willynilly, the boat slammed around.
Lane – you in 65 kn, the boat sailing at anchor, driving the lee rail under.
In both cases a riding sail on the backstay, or if the rig is a ketch, a scrap of mizzen showing, will dramatically reduce the maximum loads on the anchor. I’m guessing a reduction of 90%.
Hi Nick,
Thanks for the kind comment. Yes, I agree, there is a lot to be said for small riding sails. Although, having said that, I’m not sure that the reduction in anchor load would be as much as 90%.
The trick is figuring out how to rig one without running afoul of the radar, or some other piece of kit. Also, we have split backstays, which adds a level of complication. I have been meaning to look at that for some time, maybe I should move it up the eternal boat list.
Hi John
I was thinking of severe sailing at anchor, as in the one experience I had with my last boat. Very violent to & fro-ing, the boat heeled way over but not rail under, the bow whipped around as the anchor line came taut.
On top of this, the maximum load is when the bow is whipped around at the end of each tack. I don’t remember the angle between the tacks, perhaps 150 degrees? This means that the anchor probably rotates 150 degrees in the ground with each tack.
Quite a combination.
Given the stretching nylon rode, you must be right: the load could not be 10x.
A riding sail on one of the backstays can be led forward roughly parallel to the centerline.
Hi John — we have a 10 year old steel Spade, 44 lb for our 37′ Passport, displacing 21,000+ lbs. It kept us safe from SW FL to Cartagena and back. However, we do have a problem with rust. I read online about a new process – apparently different than galvanizing (we can’t find anywhere close that will re-galvanize). The guy is still perfecting the process and won’t do our anchor yet, but only an hour north would make it easy. His description is below. Has anyone heard of this or any comments?
“There is a better way to refurbish your anchor. It is called Thermal Spray and it is metalizing the anchor with Zinc/Alum. It will outlast galvanizing and is earth friendly, no VOC (volatile Organic Compounds). They use a gun that sprays hot liquid metal to an anchor after it is sand blasted to bare metal.
If you have an anchor that has lead on the tip, it will not melt it. There are no weight limits as usually required for galvanizing. The military uses it on anchors, anchor lockers, ships deck, the hull and many other applications.”
Any input appreciated.
THX! Jan
CommuterCruiser.com
Jan,
That process is similar to powder coating and may not last.
We are working to have an industrial stregth epoxy that will adhere to bare metal available very soon to help with all types of rusty anchors. Contact me via http://www.spadeanchorusa.com
Hi Jan,
Sounds interesting, although I had not heard of it.
We have a 12m relativley light catamaran. The primary anchor is an aluminum A120 Spade with 5/16″ chain. Worst wind: 80+ knots sustained for about 1/2 hour in Feb 2010, La Cruz Mexico. Relatively short scope, about 4:1 since the wind was totally unforecast. The anchor shank bent slightly (about 5 deg) during this blow. Dozens of boats around us dragged. Those with new generation anchors did not (Manson/Spade/Rocna) in general. We continued using it across the Pacific and never dragged.
Anchored in Bora-Bora, anchor caught on a coral head, the boat was sheering with the strong current and maybe 25 knots of wind so that the load on the shank was perpendicular to the load. The anchor, being caught on the coral head, could not re-align itself to the pull direction. The shank bent a bit more (say 10 deg) mid shank length.
I note that Spade now says that the Aluminum anchor should not be your primary anchor – and if you’re anchoring in coral or rock a lot it probably should not be. But we love the 33# low weight for an anchor the same size as the 66# steel version.
I agree that it does not like scope of <3:1 for setting. For soupy mud bottoms (river mouths) it is best to let it slowly settle for say 10-15 minutes, and find firmer ground before applying full reverse.
We'll probably get a Manson Supreme in Australia now – I can't stomach Rocna's unrelenting attacks on other anchor suppliers in online forums, though I do think they make a good anchor.
Hi Evan,
Thanks for your thoughts on the Aluminum SPADE. I thought it interesting and valuable to know that despite some pretty harsh treatment and the resulting bending, the Aluminum SPADE anchor did not fail.
John, you (and others) have convinced me to try the Spade. I would like to start by using an aluminum version on the stern roller. Any guidelines for sizing? My anchor on the bow roller is Rocna 40 which is the size they (Rocna) recommends for 18T displacement. I suppose we could use that as a basis for the stern anchor but do we need it to be an equivalent size or something smaller?
Thank you
Victor,
If you contact me through our website, I will help you get the correct anchor for your boat. Just click on the Spade anchor logo on the main page of Morgans Cloud. I will be more than happy to assist you. If you are going to use the Spade as a secondary anchor, we usually go one size smaller than the main anchor.
Hi Victor,
First off I should admit that I’m not a big fan of stern anchors, so I may not be the best person to ask, more on that here.
Having got that out of the way. If you do use a stern anchor, my thinking would be that it should be the same size or even bigger that the best bower (primary). I know that is not normally the case, and is certainly counter intuitive, but if you think about it, the loads on a stern anchor will typically be larger that that on a bow anchor due to boat not being able to swing to the wind in a typical situation where a stern anchor would be used.
John, The one caveat I would make to your comment on stern anchors is that they are likely to only need to pull from one direction so the initial set is what is important. This puts the Danforth/Fortress style anchors back in the picture as, (my take), once they get a grip they hold marvelously as long as the direction stays more or less constant. That is why my second anchor on bow and stern are these types as, almost invariably, when deployed the pull is from one direction (bow used in conjunction with the Spade or the stern alone). They are much lighter also which facilitates their usefullness, Of course if the bottom demands shape and/or weight to get down to where it can grip, and the Spade is not available, then I need to go for the rarely used Luke.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
I’d agree with Dick for the circumstances he describes, and also add that with lifting keel boats like our Ovni, and Victor’s new boat, the emphasis might be slightly different, in that it is common practice to set a kedge astern when planning to take the ground, so that the boat can be warped off again as the tide rises.
In that mode, the light weight and high holding power of the Fortress works well.
But as John points out, if the wind comes on to the beam a heavier new generation anchor makes more sense, as the loadings on the anchor can be very high, and I’d trust the re-setting capability of such an anchor far more.
Best wishes
Colin
Hi Colin,
I had not thought of the benefits of a stern anchor for boats that take the ground–a very good point.
Hi Dick,
Really good points. Although I would say that our Fortress let us down badly two years ago when I set it from the dinghy after I had run us aground in the Bahamas. When we tried to winch ourselves off with it, it just dragged home refusing to set in the hard sand bottom.
After that experience, we have considered replacing the Fortress with aluminum SPADE, which I am absolutely sure (when we got off, we anchored in the same sand with our steel SPADE with no problems) would have set.
The down side of this replacement would be that the SPADE, unless stored in two pieces, will not stow as neatly in deck chocks on the aft cabin top, as the Fortress does.
John, As I said; once they get a hold they are great, until then… Some of those Bahama’s anchorages, the bottom was more akin to a concrete landing pad. I remember the “books” saying dive down and dig a hole to start the anchor in. What a joke. A jack-hammer would have helped. Cheers, Dick
Yes, and in some places a couple of sticks of dynamite would not go amiss!
Still our big SPADE never failed to set anywhere in the Bahamas, although I should also clarify by saying that our experience there is not large.
Regarding the stern anchor, like John we also try to avoid using one except as a kedge, although sometimes it’s needed.
Thinking about the characteristics of a good stern or kedge anchor, seems like they would be:
* Fast and reliable setting in a wide variety if bottoms – you’re often in a hurry with a kedge and it’s more trouble to re-try setting an anchor from the dinghy than from the bow. If setting it from the stern, the bower is often already set so it’s again more trouble if the stern requires multiple attempts.
* Strong holding power – both for kedging and for the side-force reason already mentioned
* Light weight – often needs to be handled by hand and in awkward positions
* Stores easily and conveniently – needs to be handy for quick action
* Good backup – it can also serve as a backup to the main bowers in a pinch if those are lost or disabled.
We have a smaller aluminum Spade (A100, 20lbs) as a second bower and an aluminum Fortress intended as a stern anchor, but every time we’ve needed a kedge or stern anchor recently I’ve grabbed the Spade. Both have great holding, but we trust the Spade to set right away and it’s about the same weight but easier to handle than the Fortress with all its long pointy (and floppy) appendages.
Regarding storage, the Fortress (any Danforth style) stores better on deck, but when trying to store them in a locker, the Spade seems to fit much better because it has fewer long appendages. The Fortress stores well disassembled, but then it’s not handy, relegating it to a role as a big-storm-coming backup that is usually in the bottom of a locker or bilge. With the Spade in an easily-accessible corner of a deck locker, it’s handy to use but keeps the decks clear.
We love the Fortress. It served us well for years prior to getting the Spades, but we’ll probably end up keeping the Fortress as an emergency backup, storing it disassembled. The aluminum Spade just seems easier and more reliable.
Hi David,
A really well reasoned comment, thank you. I had not thought of the handling differences between the Fortress and SPADE and that in real-world experience, the SPADE is easier.
I think you have me just about sold on a change!
John, Colin, Evan and David and others,
I have a Fortress FX-125 which is designed for a very large boat. I am not sure what the first owner had in mind with such a large anchor but it is not too heavy so I suppose the extra size will not hurt. I am convinced it was used as a second bower since there are attachment points near the pointy end of the boat.
The reason for an aluminum spade would be lighter weight for similar holding ability since, as Colin mentions, it would most likely be used when planning to beach the boat.
We also have a 45 lb. Bruce but I think that will be overkill with the Spade onboard, although it too is an easy set.
Can one have too many anchors onboard? Probably not but the Spade and Fortress have the distinct advantage of disassembly when passage making.
Not fair to exclude other modern designs like Manson because we are splitting hairs on features and quality on Spade vs Rocna…. if we consider price the differences are huge. For my 27′ ULDB (which needs a new anchor desperately) the difference is $170 to over $600. Spade is overpriced, Rocna in the middle and others the real deal.
Hi Bill,
I see your point. However, my idea in excluding the Manson was to keep things simple. My thinking was that the Manson is so like the Rocna that most anything that we learned from Rocna users would apply to the Manson. Having said that, I would never sleep soundly using the Manson’s long slot in the shank to shackle my rode to.
On price, I think calling the SPADE “overpriced” may be a bit harsh. My guess is that with it’s hollow stock and blade fabricated from multiple plates, it is a much more complex anchor to build than the other two. This construction allows it to be as affective without the roll bar of the other two that can be a real problem in some situations.
By all means buy the anchor that gives you the best cost benefit trade-off. Having said that, I tend to find it easier to spend hard earned money on anchors than just about any other gear, since good anchors are such a large contributor to both the safety and the enjoyment of cruising.
As to splitting hairs, I think you are exactly right. What the comments to this post tell me is that both the SPADE and the Rocna are great anchors with just about no bad habits and therefore you can buy whichever best serves your needs and feel good about your decision. One of my goals was to check and see if either anchor had experienced any problems or failures. Since over 1200 sailors have viewed this post without any significant problems with either anchor being reported, it would seem that all is well.
Hi John,
Great thread and website…
Harsh? I disagree. Here is why.
a) We agree we are splitting hairs over quality anchors.
b) We also agree that when we say Rocna, we can substitute the name Manson.
Part of the problem for Spade is their distribution method. The best price I see for an oversize (for my boat) SUP25 Manson is $240,discounted 45% off list. A similar oversize S 80 Spade is $683… maybe the readers can help me find a better price.
I think paying almost 3x for the same result qualifies as overpriced. Do you disagree?
Hi Bill,
On point (b), that is not quite what I said. I think it may be true, but I certainly would not commit to it since I have no personal experience with a Manson and don’t even know anyone that does.
I still don’t like the word “overpriced” since it implies gouging, which I don’t think is the case here for the reasons I explained.
If you can get a great deal on a Manson, and you feel that it is the right anchor for you, I suggest you buy it. You don’t need my agreement.
John et al, Just a quick question/thought. If you determine a 30kg Spade steel anchor is about right for your vessel, why wouldn’t one get an alum 30kg Spade anchor and have the same weight to penetrate the bed kelp seaweed etc, but a much large surface area for holding? Assuming it can be made to fit your boat, price excepted etc.
Dick
Hi Dick,
A very interesting thought.
For me, I don’t think I would do that because I do believe that weight does have some beneficial effect on setting (particularly in some of the difficult bottom types prevalent in the high latitudes) although not ultimate holding once set.
On the other hand, if my primary anchoring area was somewhere with a soft mud, where fluke area is king, I might go with a large aluminum SPADE of the same weight, as you suggest. After all, contrary to widely held opinion, aluminum is actual stronger that steal weight for weight.
But alas….aluminum welds are at max 15 kpsi in the HAZ (heat affected zone) which bring back the alloy to basic aluminum in term of shear strenght. An equivalent weld in steel using a 6011 rod is 60 kpsi in the weld and around 35-40 Kpsi around depending on the steel. And aluminum alloy welds are so prone to cracking…. unless you can buid the anchor from a single extrusion you cannot compare aluminum and steel weight for weight in that aspect.
Hi Andre,
Clearly you are an expert, so I may be wrong, but, it would seem to me that at least some of that problem would be offset since the aluminum would be thicker and therefore the weld interface larger than in a steel fabrication.
Also, I think that a statement like “aluminum welds are prone to cracking” may be a bit sweeping. Surely, like all things, it depends on the quality of the weld. Sure welding aluminum well requires better gear and more skill that steel, but done right, such welds are very reliable. I say this based on my own experience with “Morgan’s Cloud”, where, so far at least, hundreds of meters of welds to aluminum have been holding together for 26 years and about 170,000 miles.
Finally, note that no one has indicated that they have had an aluminum SPADE actual fail. Bend yes, but not fail. Since over 1200 sailors have now read this post, I think that if such failures were common, someone would have said so.
Hi John
Your boat is completely out of trouble for the notch crack sensitivity that some aluminum alloy have because the cyclic loading on hull’s welding is not enough and architect tend to put much more aluminum than actually needed to put you at risk. Same thing probably for any anchor. But my comment was for the “aluminum is stronger than steel weight for weight”; the real answer being … it depends. You won’t find any ball bearing in aluminum neither coil springs altough you can make good pistons from alloy, the crankshaft of 99% of the engine is heavy and made of steel. And for airplanes that carry a lot of aluminum, rigorous testing at specific time in the life of the cell and wings is needed. Thus any comparison of metals need to be made within a specific context. It is true that many aluminum alloy have better strenght to weight characteristics of common steel (not tool steel or special steel), as soon as you weld the alloy, the zone which is welded fall back to the basic aluminum which is much less than steel on many aspect (almost like iron is to steel). But all this being said, i would take anytime a well constructed aluminum boat and for the same weight of my Rocna 88 i would have one built of aluminum (larger area)
cheers
Andre
Hi Andre,
I’m guessing that you are an engineer and it is really great to have input on these issues from someone who is really qualified. Thanks very much.
On a test I read in the French sailing magazine, they indicated that a very small distortion of the anchor, eg as little as 1cm, had a great influence on its future efficiency. They especially indicated the aluminium Fortress which had the best straight line holding power (steel anchors included) but which distorted on a turn. For this reason I would not have aluminium as my main bower anchor.
John, I agree totally with what you said and I must not have made my question clear as I am suggesting the same weight anchor. For ex. I have a 30kg steel Spade I use as my bower. Why would I not be better off with a 30kg aluminum Spade? Same weight, more surface area. Dick
Hi Dick,
No, I got it. Same weight, but in aluminum, much bigger.
John, Unless you are suggesting that an anchor of the same weight, but dimensionally larger, might not settle into the seabed as well. I could see an arguement in this vein (more “stuff” to shoulder aside to get down to the good holding), but would guess that the difference in settling in would be marginal. Dick
Hi Dick,
That’s it exactly.
I certainly don’t have a hard opinion on how much benefit weight confers in setting, more just a “feel” based on our years of anchoring. Still I think the effect is real.
One thing I’m pretty sure of though is that once an anchor goes over 100 pounds something magic seems to happen in ease of setting. Would that happen with a 100 pound aluminum anchor or would that much larger anchor tend to “float” on the bottom? I just don’t know.
Bottom line, our 120 pound steel SPADE works so well that I have little inclination to experiment with anything else.
Also, the thought of trying to stow a 120 pound aluminum SPADE, which would be huge, is sobering.
The only problem is that Spade anchors in Aluminum only come in 6 sizes right now. They 6, 10, 15, 26, 41, and 57 pounds. It is okay to oversize your anchor and I agree in principal with this idea of having more surface area. However, we always recommend a steel anchor as the primary.
Thanks, Evan, that kind of settles it.
Having said that, I wonder if you guys might not have a good market for larger aluminum SPADES, particularly for the newer designs some of which tend to be very fine forward and therefore react poorly to weight on the bow.
John,
I do not know if we are going that route now, but I can ask. I do know that we are going to produce another much larger steel anchor early next year. Its the SQ380 which will weigh in at 243lbs and will be able to handle a boat up to 148′
Hi Evan,
Great to hear that SPADE are now doing larger anchors. Some years ago I did a guide job to Greenland on a super-yacht. Their best bower was inadequate for Greenland cruising so we wanted a better back-up anchor. We ended up with a huge Rocna, but we found that it was a big stowage problem because of the roll bar (it would not even go down the fore hatch) and so a big SPADE would have been a better choice in that case.
Also, I was talking to an emanate large custom yacht designer the other day who stated that they still specified CQRs, even though they know that they set poorly, because the owners want the anchor to stow neatly at the bow without sticking out too far for aesthetic reasons. Again a SPADE would work well in that use.
John,
Why would such a company specifiy an anchor that they know would work poorly. The Spade anchor will fit just as neatly on the bow just like a CQR, but as we know, will work better. I really wish that boat builders would look into other options for their customers.
Hi Evan,
Beats me! Maybe this post and the associated comments will help.
Evan, John, Thanks for your thoughts. My question was mostly theoretical as my gut says that the bower should be steel. My gut can be wrong (which is why I like to bounce thoughts around), but I am quite happy with my 30kg steel Spade and suspect I will never own a vessel to feel the difference going over 100 lbs makes to anchoring. My best, Dick
Hi Dick and John
Dick’s original query is a really interesting one – given the same weight, but the huge increase in surface area would it not make more sense to go for a 30Kg alloy Spade?
A couple of thoughts –
1. I’m sure that John’s comment that there is some magic when an anchor goes over 100lbs is right. The Bruce is (to me) the perfect example, and I’ve used them. Smaller sizes (at least below 30kg) were totally unpredictable. Above (at least 50kg) the Bruce was brilliant. Weight improves penetration, and surface area improves resistance – not magic, just logic.
2. There may be a limit to what the average yachts windlass/chain combination can cope with in terms of retrieval of big surface area anchors – in one case in Scotland we had to use the crew weight, running up and down the deck fore and aft to finally pull out a 25 kg Rocna, after sitting out a night of 40-60 knot winds. And we’ve had similar experiences since with our 33kg Rocna, even with an oversize windlass. Big surface are anchors don’t give up their hold easily.
Ultimately, if it came down to either dragging with all of the inherent risks that implies, or having a major task to retrieve the anchor, I’m sure we’d all opt for the bigger anchor, and worry about getting it back when we came to it. All I’m suggesting is that there may be a pay-off somewhere along the line, and that there might have to be a compromise unless you can afford the very best – and most powerful – gear, to retrieve your life-saver.
Best wishes
Colin
Hi Colin,
A really good point. Even our massive windlass often strains to break out our 120 lb SPADE. The thought of trying to break out a 120 lb aluminum SPADE that would be much bigger is very sobering.
Dick (and Evan, further back in the thread) started a very interesting discussion that, I think, has practical merit for light boats that could benefit by keeping weight off the bow, but for the rest of us, I think a steel best-bower is best.
I had a 50 pound Spade on a 40′ cat that was the best anchor I have ever used. It would set immediately in all kinds bottoms and I got so I would hardly ever worry about it. I was always more worried about the rode and rode/chain splice than the anchor dragging. I now have a 23′ planing cabin cruiser and I wanted to buy another Spade for it but they were to expensive so I bought a Rocna. I was really spoiled by the Spade. Perhaps it is not fair to compare a 50 pound Spade with a 13 pound Rocna but the Rocna hardly ever sets on the first try. It is probably a decent anchor but it doesn’t compare with the Spade. I am in Southeast Alaska with lots of currents and deep water and I spend a lot of time dragging the Rocna around trying to get it to set.
The anchor that the magazine was referring to; is called the Seablade. It is an all one piece anchor with the same blade and shank design as the Spade, but because it does not have the weighted tip, it needs a roll bar to make sure it can right itself. Since it is of a simpler design, it therefore less expensive to manufacture and less expensive to purchase.
John, This came up on the radar referring to rust and Spade anchors. I have no 1st hand knowledge. Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy
The Spade anchor distributor offers a refinishing kit for the Spade anchor
described here
http://www.spadeanchorusa.com/other-products/anchor-refinishing-kit.html
The Seven Seas Cruising Association discussion board referred to thermal
spraying as described here http://anchoraspray.com/
Dick,
They will be available at the Miami Strictly Sail next month.