[We just got a great comment by Lawrence Trimingham from Bermuda, on our post on a late season crossing in a MacGregor 65, that we thought was so interesting that we are putting it up as a post. Lawrence has literally lived with the boat “man and boy” since his father bought Bermudian Escape 20 plus (?) years ago. He not only addresses the boat’s suitability for the crossing planned by the original questioner, he has also provided a really good overview of this very interesting cruising boat.]
I own a MacGregor 65 and have lived and sailed on her extensively in the eastern Caribbean and have done several passages between the US and Bermuda.
I also crewed on a MacGregor 65 during a storm in the Gulf Stream, with recorded winds of 60kts. No damage occurred. During the storm, the crew took the opportunity to see which angle of sail suited the vessel and crew the best and found that at times it included running off with bare poles. The MacGregor is directionally very stable at speed and does not ‘tow’ a quarter wave like many older heavy displacement sailboats.
Early reefing and minimal sail are the key to comfortably sailing the Mac 65 in a strong wind. As long as this rule is followed, the boat is very steady due to the long waterline and easily driven hull design. It is easy to handle and sea-kindly on all points of sail.
Some other information about the MacGregor 65
The plusses:
- Due to the long waterline and lack of overhang, the tendency to pitch either underway or at anchor is very low.
- The sailplan is small enough for me to handle on my own.
- Motoring is both fast and fuel efficient.
- One can steer from both inside and out.
- One hears at times that the MacGregor 65 is flimsily built, (usually from folks who have not even been on one!). Maybe this is because they were designed by Roger MacGregor of the 26ft trailerboat fame. However, if you ask any Mac 65 owner, you will find them generally a very happy lot, including when it comes to boat strength and integrity, especially for the production model with the pilot house (those built after 1987). The structural bulkheads are all solid glass and in certain areas more than 1.5″ inches thick. I know as I have had to drill through several. The hull is also reinforced in the bulkhead areas.
On the minus side:
- The original 12volt wiring installation was poor.
- The original lifeline stanchions were too short.
- The finish trim and furnishings inside the boat are basic when compared with most boats even 20 ft shorter.
- I would replace the opening ports.
- While these boats can be found in northern latitudes I am not sure how warm they would be, since there is no built-in insulation. Just a solid fibreglass hull and an interior liner.
As great as these boats are, boats like John and Phyllis’ tough and heavy Morgan’s Cloud are more suited to being hurled about for days in icy northern storm force winds with the odd iceberg floating about!
Would I cross the Atlantic between August and November? No, not even in a boat like Morgan’s Cloud, because of the risk of very nasty extra-tropical storms between the northern East Coast and Europe.
I opt for comfort, and would come through Bermuda and the Azores in May/June – crossing to Bermuda from the Chesapeake to minimize exposure to Gulf Stream storms.
{ 10 comments… read them below or add one }
Thank you John and Lawrence for this very good review of the McGregor 65. I have had an interest in this boat because of the long water line. The interior lack of warmth (in many ways) held me back in considering this vessel as a second home. But for a quick passage maker I am sure there are few equals except perhaps the Dashew’s boat, but that is a completely different price range.
Thank you for putting people straight on the MacGregor 65. I am so tired of reading scathing reviews of them written by people who have never been aboard one. While you covered allot of the positives you did not mention that there is safety in speed. I owned a Morgan 51 Out Island, and while she was a very comfortable 3 bedroom 2 bath home on the water she sailed like a brick. The MacGregor may not have the interior volume but she will literally run off and leave the Morgan in her wake. To me this relates to the safety of a vessel in that storms can be avoided instead of riding them out. The 1995 MacGregor 65 I now own is the fastest and most sea kindly boat I have ever had the pleasure of sailing, comfortable at anchor or even motoring with a quartering sea. There are forward and aft watertight bulkheads and the hull is solid fiberglass…no core! I asked a Tartan rep at a boat show once if their hulls were built using foam or balsa cores and when he realized that I was not a fan of cored hulls stated that they were only cored above the waterline. When I gave him a “duh” look he realized just what he had said and even commented that he had “never thought of it like that”! MacGregor 65′s are eligible for the American Bureau of Shipping’s +A1 rating and for Coast Guard Certification. Those that have been Coast Guard Certified have been rated to carry 49 passengers. To be eligible for this rating the vessel must pass a stability test. The following link will take you to an online copy of the MacGregor 65: http://www.webworldinc.com/heritage/brochure/800cover.htm
Enjoy the reading!
Hi Rusty,
I could not agree with you more: speed is a huge contributor to safety. Not only does it get you out of the way of bad weather, but I’m absolutely convinced that fast boats are, as a general rule of thumb, safer in heavy weather.
Having said that, good speed offshore is not, in my experience, just a function of weight: There are some fast heavy and thin boats too. But when the interior starts to govern the design, like in your old OI 51, seaworthiness and comfort (when offshore) suffer.
I’m not big on cores as a general rule, either. Although some great and strong boats have been built with Airex, so it depends on the core and the skill of the builder.
Hi
I have a Big Mac also and recently sailed it from Seattle to Hawaii and back. The boat is well built except for the rudder post housing design system. The rudder tube is fiberglass and after time it wears and the rudder posts become wobbly, causing steering to bind. A quick repair in Hawaii was an epoxy pour in the tube which held up for just under one year and the wobble is back. I am planning to haul out again and this time put in a new tube (maybe bronze) with bearings at top and bottom, putting the wear on replaceable bearings not the tube.
It is important to reef early in these boats, they actually go faster with less sail, we found out several hundred miles north of Hawaii when we got overwhelmed with a quick rise in wind with the 130 genoa up. The electric autopilot was on and kept rounding the boat down and so we broached before we could turn off the autopilot to round up, and put the boat on its side and the spreaders in the water. We took water in the cockpit and open windows for about 10 long seconds, then the boat slowly rounded up into the wind and came back up. So, really it is a fairly idiot proof boat, and the 10 year old standing rig stood the loads. It is fairly cold in nw without heat.
Heard that they are ( Mac Gregor ) considering reintroducing this 65 design again when things ( ECONOMY ) are better. With improvements. Not sure as to what improvements those would be. I hope this is not just talk. The source is close enough to be believable. Look forward to them after the falling sky folks settle down after 2012 passes much like 2000 did. Any one know more about the reintro please share. If you don’t know for sure ( please don’t ).
The only two things I wish my “Big Mac” had were a bow thruster and a fully enclosed cockpit. I can live without both, just not as comfortable. I will say that I’m just as happy not to have wood down below. We took on water when an air conditioner valve broke and I was just as happy to only have to deal with wet carpeting and not warped floorboards. She’s stark but she’s easy to clean. Though I will say one of the big improvements Roger MacGregor could make would be a less convoluted bilge system. Tell him to give me a call before he starts production– I might be able to think of a couple more things too.
I’ve also got a Big Mac, 1994, and have noticed a bit of rudder slack. How did you (Chris) sort this out? Did you have to haul the boat or could you repair in the water? I haven’t yet had a good look at the rudder stock.
Another question. My genoa has expired and I’ve been quoted about $8000 for a new one. I can get a used, but good, one for about $600. But it would need a lead to the deck further forward than the old high cut foresail, ie a genoa track and carriage. Has anyone fitted a track and is the deck strong enough to take it?
I am interested to buy a Big Mac. During my research I noticed that there was a design change in that the engine was moved back towards the stern together with the prop. Was this done to provide better prop wash to the rudder and improve maneuverability in tight quarters?
I read in one blog a story about a Mac 65 that ended up against the pilings because it didn’t turn quick enough. I suspect a bow thruster would help as well.
Any comments in that regards are welcome.
I owned a 92 Mac 65 for ten years. I loved that boat. Since then I’ve had 2 Hallberg-Rassys, but neither have been as fun as the Mac 65. For the price, I’m not sure another boat compares. Some are trashed out, and not worth consideration, but if an RV interior is ok, and you like awesome sailing (and fast motoring), the Mac 65 is the perfect family cruiser (on steroids).
By the way, you can’t put a bowthruster on a Mac 65 as the hull in the forward 15 feet of the boat is not deep enough, and further back the turning moment of the thruster would reduce its effectiveness, not to mention requiring a 10 foot long tube.